Independent or grammar?

Have you thought about a good (please notes the word good) traditional rural prep that prepares for the 13+?. Perhaps with a bit of flexi/weekly boarding? My DS2 passed two pre tests at yr 6 both for super selectives one was very over subscribed and we were told at the interview he was unlikely to get a place as he hadn’t come from their usual prep schools (these would have been pushy London ones with parents tutoring obsessively) he had no tutoring just a couple of interview practices. We tutored for the entrance exam in yr 8 in one subject (Latin) because the Latin teacher retired and the new teacher didn’t know any Latin! But at a good prep hopefully this shouldnt happen,
Watching friends with children who were sitting the 11+ I was struck by how frenetic it was for their children loads of tutoring sitting 5-6 entrance exams etc. Mine did significantly less home work their school life was significantly less frenetic and high pressured it was just much more relaxed there was more fun stuff basically until until yr 8 when they sat CE/entrance exams. Also preps like my DSs attended seemed to really only encourage you to enter for a couple of pre tests at Year 6 and they would strongly discourage weak candidates unlike the 5-6 entrance exams that many friends in 11+ preps did and parents seemed to enter their DCs into entrance exams knowing they were unlikely to pas “but it was good practice”. At 13+ preps by the time you’re sitting CE or entrance exams at yr 8 success is almost guaranteed. I do accept that in some areas there are lots of children fighting for day places.
Doesn’t resolve your holiday thing 22 weeks holiday is the norm personally I loved it especially the long summer break (often 9 weeks) no school work just time to chill out and have fun but ai appreciate work commitments can make it difficult.
Should just add my info may be out of date as both DSs are now at uni maybe 13+ preps have turned into frenetic pushy hot houses with every parent frantically tutoring!

As others have said, competition for super selectives with no catchment is high - a 1/10 chance for some of the Kent schools such as Dartford Grammar or, in Bromley, St Olaves. Probably the same all over the South East and anyway near to London.

If money is no object then I would look at a less pressured independent secondary school. Places like Sevenoaks and Tonbridge in Kent are not top tier but will serve all children very well and get amazing results with all of the other whistles and bells you pay for. The children are hand held a lot more than at a state school so you can take your foot off the pedal a bit- after all, that is what you are paying for. If your child is academic, then they qualify for a scholarship which may bring some fee remission (not always though!). Parents don't get involved as much at secondary so you won't be faced too much with the endless playground competition- it's a big relief!

Kent grammars are great, don't leave out Chislehurst and Sidcup which is marvellous by the accounts

And is a London Borough of Bexley grammar school, with a completely separate entrance exam from the Kent Test...

But there you go - Bexley currently has the 'top 180'. The top 180 (-ish, depending on how many share the score of the 180th candidate) scorers in the Bexley test are guaranteed a place at the gender-appropriate Bexley grammar school of their choice, regardless of place of residence at the time of taking the exam / submission of CAF/ any other cut-off date applicable to lesser mortals.

Caveat - under this system, I believe, a significant number of the out of area 'top 180' never do take up a Bexley grammar school place and the '180' is set, so the guarantee is not passed on down the rankings. Since the Admisdions Code doesn't allow the LA to restrict the top 180 ranking to local candidates, there is always the possibility that they will decide at some point to try to change the system altogether.

I think you are under estimating how similar the grammar schools are to independents in terms of pressure and parental involvement, certainly in sw London. Obviously you don’t have to pay fees but you say that is not a big factor. When you hear of the pressure of getting into schools such as Tiffin, it is actually even worse than the independents.

“I'm interested in applying for an out of area place for a grammar school so it doesn't feel as much pressure to get in for dc, then we would move if he got It.”
You can’t do this for “ordinary” grammar schools in Kent- they have catchments like any other schools and you would only get a place if the school was undersubscribed. Which it won’t be. You can for the super selectives- but then you really are into crazy competitive.

Superselectives such as ours have no catchment area by definition and therefore OP's DC could take the admissions test from her current home. No need to move at all for superselective tests.

Do you realise that most Comprehensives are selective within the school?

Top sets, top streams?

But you yourself are caught up in the pressurised competitive mindset. Your declining to consider good comprehensive schools is by definition funnelling you into the very systems you with to avoid.

Grammars are by their very nature competitive and if you move for the Grammar system you are putting a lot of pressure on yourselves and your children to get in. In year 2, (and especially pre- school) you can’t predict how your child will perform in one exam on one day in 4 years time.

Independent schools all have much more holiday than state. If they are selective / academic they are competitive....

The Grammars accessible from where you live are, I suspect, all
Super-selective, I.e top scores from miles around rather than just passing the 11+. There will be frenzied tutoring going on for places.

But maybe MN can point you to an area with highly thought of Grammars that don’t require tutoring and selective academic private schools that have plenty of places.

Remember that in areas like Kent there is a hierarchy amongst Grammars, with some harder to get into than others, with more prestige etc.

Look deeply at how you would really react in that situation before making any moved.

You need to look at the grammar school admissions procedures for the areas where you may want to live. Because you will prob ind ou need to move first and then hope you qualify (score and dance) as going for a superselective (score only) can be considerably more stressful.

Do not overlook comprehensives - you need to find out how they set/stream, as you may find there are ones you like after all. Though if course you'll need to be living close by the time applications are due.

I live in Hampshire where many people commute to London e.g. from Winchester. You don't want to hear about our schools.

Whereabouts are you north surrey sw borders can be a grammar area (where I live is)

W00t

the work is increasingly being overseen by parents and tutors

"This is the situation in every English school"

That is completely wrong for many, many, many parents. It probably reflects your own practice but it's not the norm in our area.

Avoid Kent like the plague. If your child doesn't get in, the schools for those that don't pass are not good

This isn’t entirely true. I live in a town with three grammars and three comps, all the comps are rated outstanding. The most sought after one does restrict entry to children from church going families, so back door selection, but the other two don’t.

Your OP sounds like a journalist fishing... However, a couple of points:

the work is increasingly being overseen by parents and tutors

This is the situation in every English school, regardless of funding status.
Children are at home more than at school, of course most input comes from home.
You can choose not to be part of the tutoring mill, but it takes balls to do it.

Avoid Kent like the plague. If your child doesn't get in, the schools for those that don't pass are not good.

Out of area places, in Kent at least, are dependent on not just passing the 11 plus but getting a very high score. For context this year the maximum a child could score was 423, the minimum pass mark was 321 and the super selectives which offer out of county places required scores in excess of 400 for the first round of offers.

Either, depending on whether or not you like the school in an all round way.

Kent grammars are great, don't leave out Chislehurst and Sidcup which is marvellous by the accounts of all parents of pupils that I've known over the years. Co-ed.

The grammar system in Kent is crazy, so much pressure on your dc for 1 exam. Spend some time on the elevenplusexams.co.uk website on the Kent and Bucks pages to see the pressure created by parents.
You should look a bit further outside London to Surrey where there are loads of options for dc of all abilities and schools that go through to 18.
Almost all private schools are term time 30-33 weeks per year.

Some grammars are sleepy/weak so if you do move, take care to select your area with care.

My own view is that your perception is blurred by living in London and being part of the London independent school network.

In other areas (eg mine), with DC at a grammar (I have no experience of comps), parents can have minimal input (ie attend annual parents' meetings and read termly reports) and let the school get on with educating the DC. I can't recall ever helping a DC with homework - I'm pretty confident I'd do more harm than good with most subjects so that saves a lot of angst and time :)