Independent or grammar?

Read up on the Bucks schools very carefully, you really have to commit before getting the results so need to move in good time & also be near a good secondary modern (that's the hard bit, not which grammar school to choose). Try the eleven plus forum. Many of the independent schools in Bucks aren't very selective as people prefer a free grammar education if they can manage it. For not top notch but decent schools that people seem very happy with look at Piper's & Claires Court in Maidenhead.

Gota Completely agree. The OP doesn't want to know about state in Hants though.

I went to a super selective. Ended up living in Hampshire by accident. DC went to local state schools then Peter Symonds (state sixth form college) and now at RG universities. No 11+, no tutoring, no pressure, no fees. Hampshire is bliss! Sorry to be off topic though

Looking at the Bucks CC website, the 'in catchment' residence requirement for Dr Challoners Grammar School is for continuous residence from 1st April in year 5, i.e. from before the closing date for registration for the boy to sit the transfer test. And no places wete allocated out of catchment last year at least. So no good for the 'we'll move if DC gets a place strategy. For the other grammar schools, I think, the relevant date is 31st October (i.e. the CAF submission deadline. This gives one just over two weeks from results day to dispose of one's old home and get oneself and one's child(ren) moved into the new one, new primary school place(s) sorted etc.

Y2 is very young to assume your child will pass the 11+ test, especially for a super selective.

We’re in Bucks and even with the (apparently) less stringent test, many kids tutored to an inch of their lives don’t pass, and that’s with sometimes two years’ professional preparation. Pass rate in our incredibly middle class school is 50% - so half of the ‘bright’, heavily tutored kids don’t get the required 121 (to much shock and devastation of child and parent).

I wouldn’t bet the farm on it.

Personal experience of Bucks grammars - my oldest is at Dr Challoner's Grammar and absolutely loving it. Lots of opportunities for trips, extra-curricular and all that. School does their best to foster a culture of independent learning. Advantage of Bucks grammars is that you only do one test which covers all the schools in the county.

But check location requirements very carefully - you need to have been living here for a while. Admissions process is pretty simple, too: if you score over 121 and live in the catchment area, you get a grammar school place - actual value of score if it's over 121 is not an issue. Catchment areas do change as well, so if you do make the move, think about that very carefully.

We are in Chesham so lucky enough to be in catchment area for both Chesham Grammar and Dr Challoner's - they're both pretty good schools but we felt all-boys would be a better environment. DCG was our first choice and CG our second.

Happy to answer any specific questions you might have - the Bucks section of the 11 plus forum as someone else has said is very good for info.

But never assume that your child will get into grammar school. Always look at the options if they don’t.

I went to a medium pressured academic selective girls school.

My child goes to a good comprehensive.

My education, compared to his was a complete waste of money.

Not comparable because I think many comps were different then.

But if I had a choice as to where to live I would head for the great Hampshire comps / Winchester.

I understand

No grammars in Cambridge though, so you’d be looking purely through the independent options.

Cambridge has a wide selection of independents. If you want high academic rigour and top marks there is the Perse. There are then the various college schools. If you want longer terms you’d need to avoid St Faiths. There’s also Kings Ely just up the train line, which has a broader spread of results (less pressured) and excellent pastoral care.

Regular trains to London, the quickest being 45 minutes to Kings Cross.

May I suggest King's and Kesteven Grammar schools in Grantham? Both excellent schools with good result and for me, decent subject teachers especially strong Maths department in girl's school for example. You don't have to live in catchment to apply and can wait for result before moving. It's 1hr 10mins to London King's Cross and I commute 3 days a week to London for work. Housing is cheap. Commute costs not but there are ways to reduce costs if you buy advance tickets. I have 2 children, self tutored and passed and saving myself a huge packet by not paying for private school.

Op - I forgot to mention Wycombe Abbey for girls!!! Only one of the leading schools in the country. Only the brightest should apply though! Plus it costs rather a lot!

TeenTimesTwo do you mean because they are mostly state?

No, because they are comps which produce very good results for bright children (and less bright ones too), and I struggle to wonder why someone would go private round here unless they want the sport / other extra curricular / social exclusivity.

People have varying views about the Bucks Grammars. There is a sort of informal pecking order that used to be judged by the old admissions system of first preferences. However it’s more nuanced these days.

For many the two Dr Challoners grammar schools stand out. Aylesbury High, Aylesbury Grammar and The Royal Latin are quite large and popular. The co Ed’s are popular because they are co Ed! Sir William Borlase in Marlow has a very small catchment area and no guarantee of a place even if you live in it. Wycombe RGS had dodgy value added last year. Most of the Grammars here have + value added. This reflects over tutored children who then have to accelerate to catch up. Largely they do!

If you want a decent secondary modern, the best is Waddesdon c of e but it has vanishingly small catchment!

Girls independent Seniors are Pipers Corner, Berhamsted and Stowe (at 13) and boys it’s Stowe or Berkhamsted. However Berkhamsted and Pipers have their own preps and Pipers can be quite tricky to get into as they are way more selective than they used to be.

Godstowe is the top prep for girls. Fees for Y3 are £5,500. Boys go to Caldicott or The Beacon for prep for independent boarding schools at 13. Other preps concentrate on the Bucks 11 plus but this varies . Some preps are not worth paying for! Beware of cheap tiny ones!

I’ve PMed you.

The problem with rural 13+ preps is that they are generally preparing their pupils per entrance into boarding school if you're current budget it £40K pa for two kids then these will out of your reach without a bursary or scholarship and bursary. I've quickly googled a few preps that I know friends speak highly off and would hopefully provide the sort of education I detailed above but all are charging £7500 a term per child for day you're looking £10 000K for boarding so I suspect again outside of your budget.
What about moving away from the SE we have excellent high achieving comps in this area (with places) some achieving better results than lower achieving grammars Im sure other areas are the same.
"I wonder what the trend will be in the future,"
My prediction based solely to my experience of independent education as a parent and as someone who has worked in them is that the big names with matching big fees and plenty of applicants (including from the international market) will continue to push there fees up and attract good teacher because of all the perks housing long holidays good working conditions etc etc. But the less famous and outside of London may at the very least hold their fees.The only thing that may stop this is the shortage of money and teachers, and the increased focus on academic subjects brought about by progress 8 or whatever its called at the cost of non academic in the state sector which may in the medium term have a real impact on education. This may encourage some schools to drop their fees to encourage more parents to consider independent ed or it may mean that increased demand means they do't have too.
Im not convinced teaching it preps is always great TBH especially if they employ specialists teachers, I suspect for example it's much more enjoyable to teach Latin A level than Latin to 8 year olds. One prep teacher once told me that having taught ICT and DT in a prep for 10 years he would struggle to get back into the state system so he might as well stay and make the best of it, I know this is a generalisation but Ido think some teachers at prep school can get stuck in their ways and stale.

The other thing you need to take account of is your children's differing needs and personalities. I have children in selective independent and super-selective grammar schools; I work in an outstanding comprehensive school. We were lucky enough to have a number of options for each of them, and so we chose the school that best met the needs of the child. Categorically I cannot say what meets the needs of my eldest would not suit my middle child.

There are an increasing number of slightly more affordable private schools, as there is a current trend for cutting fees (even Millfield has cut fees recently). You will in general get larger class sizes and less swanky facilities but still the pastoral support and academic rigour that you would expect from the private sector. These schools don't tend to be super selective but still will have entrance assessments and expect pupils to be above average. For example St Joseph's College in Reading cut its fees by 30% a few years ago and has gone from strength to strength since, including winning the Independent School of the Year award. Schools like this are a good option as there isn't the huge 'rat race' pressure for parents and kids but you're still giving them an excellent education.

Throughout the state sector (including grammars) the financial pressures mean that staffing is squeezed, and teaching resources are minimal (for example less science experiments as there is no money to run them). There is also generally a focus on independence of learning, with pupils expected to be self starters (and parents to step in if this isn't the case).

The private sector offers a lot more support and guidance, whichever school you end up at (although obviously there is a lot of variation between schools). Parent are paying customers and as such the school has a responsibility to keep them happy and informed.

We live in Bucks and that opens up the possibility of Grammars and independents. It’s a county wide grammar entrance test taken in the first few weeks of y6. Many preps tutor for this but the state primaries don’t. It’s less difficult to pass than for a super selective. All the schools are excellent and some are a bit more excellent than others.

The secondary schools are hit and miss but you can enroll at an independent school if it all goes wrong and plenty do this. If you think you want independent, then choose where you live carefully because boys independents are thin on the ground.

Or go to a traditional prep and do 13 plus for an independent. Some girls do this too!

Only on MN could Tonbridge and Sevenoaks be described as less pressured. Sevenoaks is one of the top IB schools in the world and Tonbridge is well within the top 50 A level schools in the UK govt league tables with better results than most grammars (including Tiffin Boys) other than a few super selectives - Wilsons, QE, Reading etc. Those results are achieved as a result of a lot of hard work.

If you want somewhere less pressured go a lot further down the league tables, I would say at least outside the top 250, but it won't help you with the short school year at Indy schools. You live in an area of excellent comps and I'm not sure why you have dismissed them.

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/schools-by-type?step=default&table=schools&region=all-england&for=16to18&show=All+pupils+2018&datasetfilter=provisional&searchtype=&orderby=ks5.0.TALLPPE_ALEV_1618&orderdir=asc&datatype=integer&sortpolicy=inversepolicy