Independent or grammar?

Wombat then this is fine. The OP can be interested with minimum time investment and get on with work/ life etc and not feel ground down in any way. Provided that she's interested as opposed to uninterested. But very little time is required, just the mental element of being interested.

I’m sure has created a supportive environment which involves all kind of thing many children lack It's gratifying that you're sure - and you may be correct (I'm not sure!) - but perhaps you could clarify that sentence too?!

Perhaps I can clarify. My points about input were directly to the Op and a response to what she’d said in her initial and later posts. I got the impression that she felt she was being asked to do too much by the Prep school - the holidays had become longer, which she found difficult with work, plus she seemed to feel the parental input expected with homework etc and other stuff was too much, especially as she was paying. She suggested that if such input was needed she’d rather not pay and have a free state education.
I guess I was trying to say that it’s not a case of you pay and then you can back off and leave it the school to sort everything out, although I acknowledged that in Boarding there will be more of that. I was merely pointing out that often parents of children in independents have lots of input and possibly more than many state school children’s (not all, before anyone objects to that). Often the opportunities independents offer require parental input and support to fully benefit from them - so being in a team and playing every Saturday requires parents to get you to school and pick you up and most won’t be in walking distance. That’s just one example and isn’t particularly about academic input and support although a lot of that will go on too. When I said that interested parents have big input, I meant in the broadest sense - someone gave a list asking about things like taking to museums - well yes, it is things like that - so when dinosaurs are studied at school your family go on a day out to the Natural History Museum. When a topic is studied you buy a book for the child about it. You chat at the table about the topic - ie you are interested and engage. Some people might be more hands off than others and some might be so busy that they have no idea what their kids are up to at school or out of it and never ask - they couldn’t really be called very interested and those parents exist in all schools as do helicopter parents who micro manage. All I was saying is that the Op probably needs to expect to engage whichever type of school their child goes too, and some schools will provide less opportunities and support than some independents (and I know some Grammar parents like to claim their kids receive absolutely everything the same as independents) meaning even more input might be needed if you want to ensue access to all opportunities.

Op clearly was feeling she wasn’t getting value for money and having to do more than she expected herself. I can’t comment on that school as I don’t know anything about it, but I’d say most parents at independents pay up their fees and receive what the school has to offer AND still expect to have a reasonable input too - some might be surprised about it like Op to start with (or not) but most realise this is entirely normal and usual for parents in these schools. Of course isn’t it a key reason why these children do well - they are well supported from home. And yes I know that applies to many children in state schools too, who many of whom also do really well or better than many kids from independents. Although some children will do well with little little input (and the debate on this thread about this isn’t really being led by a parent who has neglected to show interest, just not been heavily involved in the detail of the academics, but I’m sure has created a supportive environment which involves all kind of thing many children lack) we all know that many children who poorly do poorly partly because of that lack of support.

I’m sure Op is interested and has input. Being on here and thinking about best options shows interest in itself. She might however think more about the input she’s being asked to put in by school and if that’s really going to reduce, or if it’s actually something that’s important and worth it and if actually good schools expect that parental input and it’s the input from both school and home that leads to success.

My point is that parents are not uninterested simply because they don't have a 'big input' (Wombat). I'm not making any other claims whatsoever, so it's slightly ridiculous of you, AllMYSS, to say that I'm making any claims as to why my DC excelled (in fact I haven't even made any claims they excelled!).

@goodbyestranger
Yes of course your children were lucky (genetically and in terms of motivation, schools, teachers etc). Most children whose parents don't have a huge input into their education don't excel. (I'm not say you were wrong to leave them to it - it was obviously the best idea in their case it's just slightly ridiculous to claim that was the reason they excelled.)

I have also seen the independent brigade reluctant to criticse their school as it might take off the gloss. I saw swathes at DD’s sought after independent school head to tutors and still see them go, the tutor living just round the corner for us and girls with this school’s uniform getting out of 4x4s in repeated droves to get help as the maths teacher isn’t much use but the parents are paying and it is a sought after school so they don’t want to admit it.

Yes DD is probably at one of the grammars Cauliflower describes but it has learnt lots of lessons and is now benefiting from positive management and it certainly doesn’t glitter - the drains are shot to pieces (very very bad in an all girls school!) and a super selective means parents are often distant in more ways than one.

OP - be very careful with grammars as you would with any other school. One super selective quite near me has gone through about 5 Headteachers in as many years and has quite a lot of negative press; another has had a dreadful report written about their Headteacher who has been pushed out over some illegal procedures designed to inflate grades, and I expect there will be a ripple effect for several years in both of these schools. But on paper and on websites they both look fabulous.

Just saying, like for any school, to do your homework really carefully. All that glitters etc.

And those on EHCPs

And all schools have LAC (including adopted children) as first priority.

And all Kent grammar schools have catchment areas- even the super selectives. If two applicants both get top marks in the test and there is only one place left the one who lives nearer gets it.

Not necessarily the case. Some give priority to pupil premium students for example and they go to the top of the list, as long as they have passed the test.

bengalcat it's clear from Wombat's post that she doesn't see 'big input' correlating to the absence of choice in terms of schools available to the parent.

I wouldn’t regard myself as ever having a big input or arguably any input into my kids schoolwork . DD has always done her own homework , had decent reports and never a bad word at parents evening . It’s always been my assumption therefore that no additional input from me is required or indeed necessary. That’s what I pay school fees for . No doubt some interested parents do have big inputs but absence of this does not correlate in all cases with being disinterested . It’s all about finding the right school for your particular child where they will flourish and in this some parents will have more choices available to them .

Please don't keep coming on to threads telling parents who support their children they are doing it all wrong.

TTT I'm not. What I am doing, with respect, is to defend myself against Wombat's rather insulting assertion that parents who don't have big inputs are disinterested:

Well, the reality is that interested parents do have big inputs.

I hope that's ok.

Also, perhaps some DC do need additional parental support but in plenty of cases it's very obviously unnecessary and in a good number of other cases it will actually do harm, by creating a sense of imposed pressure. So I think that's a perfectly valid point to make, especially coming from so many years of experience in a super selective environment where some parents do actually seriously oppress their DC, even though it's likely to be with the best of intentions. I've seen it time and time again.

had a child with dyspraxia or other organisational issues

Yes, fair point. I took dyspraxia to mean all spLDs as I suppose I would have wondered why dyspraxia should be singled out for special input but the answer is still yes, and in fact the same DD with the hearing issues had dyspraxia and was extremely disorganised early one in school. Another DC has other spLDs and a third has one too, but unrecognised until late.

I didn't ask about special needs, I asked about organisational issues. Because children with organisational issues generally need more support organising themselves, their homework, their revision, and might well have difficulty writing coherent essays. It was a totally fair question.

Your kids are inherently bright. Your parenting has evolved with your children's abilities.
I would love to be more hands off than I am, but my children need more support in order to succeed.
I'm not telling you you are wrong to not be more involved with your kids, it obviously worked well. Please don't keep coming on to threads telling parents who support their children they are doing it all wrong.

Your list was very silly TTT and the question about special needs was not ok - it was only asked of me because you assumed the wrong answer.

My response would be that there are DC up and down the country whose parents have massive input, micro manage their educational lives and go to expensive schools and still do seriously badly. It's the same argument as: 'Well my DC were tutored for grammar since Y4 and still didn't get in , so the level of competition is insane'.

False premises flood MN.

goodbye Given there are countless children up and down the country whose parents give as little input as you, who don't succeed in getting into super selectives / Oxbridge. yes I do think your children are lucky. They clearly have the nature (intellect and organisation) that has let them thrive without needing your guidance / tangible support. Of course your nurture will have helped but most children will not achieve nearly so well, whether with parental input, or not.

Goodbye, I worked in Chelmsford for a while. The Chelmsford and Colchester grammars were very highly rated, especially Colchester, and regarded às better than Southend but I didn't think Southend were dire. Kids who went there appeared to do well. And there are some good comprehensives in Mid and North Essex.

CRGS is fantastic though. And CCHS is good too. Why go to a poor or middling grammar over a good comp?

Daisymay aren't the Southend grammars dire?

Bertrand this isn't about particular DC but it does always amuse me that you never flip the question and ask whether my DC might have done well precisely because I didn't ever do heavy duty educational input. I mean, do you suppose I thought, as each emerged from the womb, oh that little person looks like a super selective kid so I might as well take advantage and indulge my inner laziness/ slack off on the parenting front? Or do you just think it a huge coincidence that they all did ok
in spite of rather than because of my [lack of] input? I think the answer is pretty obvious, don't you? Of course it does also fail to validate the more aggressive parenting style advocated so often on these threads, but there we go. Getting them to read is the key thing and after that I reckon it's best to just let them go.

TTT I failed quite a few of your questions including the one about special needs, although your response is to glibly say my DC are lucky. I'm not completely convinced that my DD really feels that lucky not to be able to hear.

Would the Essex Grammars work for you? Chelmsford and Colchester are both very high achieving and I believe their catchements are UK wide. However getting in can be challenging. Rumour is that the Southend Grammars are slightly easier to access.

We had neighbours who moved to N Essex/S SUffolk after their DC passed the 11 plus and got a place. There are some good indies depending on which bit of Essex/Suffolk you look at.
Easy access to the City via Liverpool Street.

#ago

My daughter passed her 11+ into TWIGGS Tunbridge Wells Kent 4 years agi - unlike half of her fee paying prep girl friends.

You do realise in a grammar she will be only one 120 in her Year Group so if you can afford it go private, do it - we got a scholarship and bursary in the end x

“If you want serious sport you’ll have to sort it yourself and if you want serious orchestras etc you may have to source it outside school.”
Yes-you might have to pay for it. Just like private school parents do.

If you want serious sport you’ll have to sort it yourself and if you want serious orchestras etc you may have to source it outside school.

Not true - this will apply to some state schools and some independents!