What does a bad pupil do during lessons ?

That nice child who disrupts dilutes learning for up to 29 others and it is completely unacceptable.

Yep I would still say that a child who chatters a lot is being selfish and rude. Just because they may be able to chat and get the work done does not mean others will be able to with their chatter going on. But hey entitled parents usually produce entitled children IMO

Some kids can work with chatter in the background but most need quiet

Sometimes, the teacher wants to know what each individual pupil has grasped from the lesson or knows already on a topic- so if one student is talking, even about the work, this isn't helping the teacher or their classmates.

Sometimes, talking about the activity is ok.

Sometimes, off topic talking will distract others, and it means the pupil isn't working to the best of their ability. In many lessons, a few minutes is lost at every "transition" due to pupils talking. If you say 5 minutes is lost per lesson, then that's maybe 30 minutes per day, or two and a half hours a week of lesson time which students are missing out on.

Shouting out is never ok- it doesn't matter if it's correct or relevant. Teachers often want to give every pupil a chance to answer, not to allow your child to dominate the lesson. It can be intimidating for shy pupils and put them off answering.

When you talk about being hyper, this sounds like low level disruption and isn't fair on others.

It doesn't matter if all their work is being done if they are negatively impacting the class around them.

At some point, your child will have to learn to sit quietly and concentrate- either at university or in the world of work. Why not start now?

Other people in the class will also be distracted by the chatting. It's very disrespectful to the teacher and rest of the class.

Talking means not listening and disrupting other people working so not ok at all. Just because your child is chatty and always finishes work doesn't mean that the person who they are talking to is finishing theirs.

Xmas as a parent I get annoyed with other pupils talking through lessons. They might be able to do the work and talk, but my DD gets really thrown off by low level disruptions such as this. She needs all her focus on lessons to get through them and learn. It is inconsiderate and rude.

I met a teacher who said that she once had to lock herself and her class in the chemistry prep room as a student was trying to get in with a knife.

Not London. Not a big city. A naice country market town.

Great post from wilting flower

Any student who disrupts a class and distracts others is behaving selfishly and needs to stop. End of story.

Everyone deserves an education, not just the loud ones.

One of my bugbears was always describing the purpose of a practical, talking it through step by step, handing out instructions and asking the pupils to read through it, asking if there were questions about what I wanted them to do and then allowing them to start the practical, only for them to start wandering around the room, making no attempt to get their data/ perform the required tasks, playing with the equipment inappropriately and then at the end of the lesson say, 'I didn't get it.' They just didn't care... they weren't 'bad' just didn't care. It's hard for me to continue to put in countless hours, blood sweat and tears and they don't care...

And chattiness. I can't hear questions, let alone think when it's all a-hum. Not bad, just tedious and annoying.

Not from a teacher's point of view, from my dd's points of view they're a pain because they disrupt the lessons
That's the attitude of most of my students.

It always reminds me how great the majority are when the same old loudmouths start again. They're nice students, but nice students who seem to think that because they are nice they can get away with being a bit disruptive, chatty, loud and generally not showing consideration for others.
I do come down on that sort of thing hard because I have a policy of respect in my classroom and as far as I'm concerned anything preventing peers from learning shows a lack of respect to othet learners.

It’s all relative.

If you’ve told a student not to roll up their skirt and they unroll it then roll it up again 2 minutes later it’s as defiant as asking a student not to call out to a friend across the classroom and then they do it again 5 minutes later. It might not directly disrupt teaching but it directly disrupts the ethos the school is trying to create.

A student who “does their work but is chatty” is not doing it to the best of their ability or allowing others in the classroom to, so if you tolerate this as a teacher then you are tolerating students not doing their best work. Saying it’s being “patient” might be true, but if your job is to try and get students to do their best work and be as successful as they can, are you being truly kind by being patient and ignoring or tolerating substandard work and poor levels of attention, or are you being kinder by insisting on students doing their best work?

Students arguing back - that’s just a demonstration of a lack of respect. The more that is tolerated the more they will do it. Eventually the authority of the teacher becomes totally eroded.

What is your opinion on nice children who get the work done but constantly talk and sometimes shout out and are rather hyper?

Not from a teacher's point of view, from my dd's points of view they're a pain because they disrupt the lessons actually more than seriously bad behaviour which is generally dealt with fairly strictly. Both of them have had friends for whom this sort of "low level" disruption, impacts on their learning because the teacher is dealing with them talking/shouting out/being silly rather than being able to teach and help those who are quietly struggling.

From speaking to teachers they're a pain because when they try and manage them, they often respond with (or get their parents to write in to the head of year indignantly) that they were "only talking", "can't help it/can't help being chatty" and "they're doing the work so why does it matter". It matters to the rest of the form.

I'm going to focus on the 'nice' children (from your second post) who talk a lot, are hyper and shout out. These things are examples of low level disruption but it does make a noticeable difference and doesn't help create a good learning environment for all 30 (or more) pupils in your class. 'Nice' children may be polite and overall lovely but their behaviour can also be considered inconsiderate/rude if their behaviour impacts on the learning of the rest of the class, whether they intended to or not.

From my experience as a trainee science teacher so far, I wouldn't use the word 'bad' but 'disruptive' instead because children are children, not bad or good, they're still young and learning. It's all about poor pupil behaviour and definitely not the child being 'bad'.

Talking: it's important to consider whether this is (1) during instruction time when the whole class needs to pay attention, be quiet (don't talk) and listen to the teacher, or (2) during an activity which allows quiet chatter as long as work is completed or (3) during a silent task (where no one should be talking unless hands are up and they're discussing something with the teacher or TA).

Instruction time
I notice a domino effect in some classes during instruction time where a couple of pupils may be talking about the work but when they're not told to be quiet, this inspires irrelevant talking by another group of pupils who think it's ok to talk over the teacher/ don't realise the first couple of pupils were talking about relevant information and that's why the teacher didn't say anything initially. When the domino effect spreads to a good number of the class though, you can see clearly that pupils aren't paying attention where they should, they're missing key information and need refocusing.

Ultimately whether pupils are talking about the work or something irrelevant during instruction time, they need to be quiet and pay attention, then put their hand up to clarify things with the teacher as needed. I've learnt that when I teach, I need everyone focusing on what I'm saying during instruction time to give them the best learning experience. If you are interested op, you might want to look into the idea of germane, extraneous and instrinsic cognitive loads to work out why pupils talking when the teacher is, regardless of the pupil doing the work they should be doing, isn't great for their learning or another pupil next to them or nearby.

Talking during activities
No one should be talking during silent activities.
During non silent activities some pupils might talk a lot and do their work and that's good for them. There's a problem when they end up disrupting the learning of other pupils though. Some pupils really struggle concentrating with background noise. Some pupils want to do the work but struggle to get started and anyone talking nearby is the perfect opportunity for them to procrastinate.

Hyper and shouting out: Shouting out is not good. As a teacher you want the class to be calm and focused on learning and doing their best. When one person shouts out, you get a domino effect again where other people think it's ok to do that if the initial shouter isn't told not to. As for hyper, enthusiasm for learning is fantastic but not for the other 29 pupils if it ruins the atmospheric Feng Shui of the class/ doesn't create a positive, calm learning environment for all.

Looking back, I didn't mean to write so much but I hope it helps to see things in another way.

If they are shouting out, talking and hyper they are disruptive and not behaving well.

Id also assume that this is your child, and you think it is fine to misbehave as your child’s work hasnt been negatively impacted by your child’s behaviour and it doesnt bother you if other children’s has

Being a smart arse and disrupting lessons is one sign of a bad pupil.

I wouldn't describe any student as a "bad" student. What a horrible label.

Poor behaviour in lessons can take on a range of forms. Ignore the high level things and you get 'low level disruption' which is a stupid name as it's what teachers spend their time dealing with.

E.g.
Silent work has been set but some students think that means whisper and talk
Students gossiping instead of working
Silly behaviour to distract peers
The teacher having to wait before speaking as some students don't be quiet
Students talking over the teacher
Students talking over othet students who are giving answers
Students not following simple instructions first time
Staring into space and time wasting

Behaviour either contributes to learning or it detracts from learning. But making poor choices doesn't make a child 'bad'.

Talking can be an integral part of the lesson.

If a student is acting in a way that is detrimental to the learning of others a teacher needs to be aware and take some form of action.

If the work is done may be brilliant for the child talking but what about his or her less able friend who is not learning because of the talking?

Classroom management is far more complex than good or bad, talking or not talking.

Bad behaviour is doing a handstand in class, it's throwing things out a window, but it is also, talking when it disturbs the lesson, at the same time as the teacher or as a pupil who is answering a question.

Surely it depends on the class? In a language class, for example, there could be an oral based class where there is no scope whatsoever for "getting the work done" if you are constantly chatting. It just wouldn't be possible. So the child's behaviour would be rude, disruptive and they wouldn't get their work done. I think that actually, not knowing where this post comes from, but bad behaviour is about the impact on others around. I would be far, far more annoyed by behaviour that prevents others from learning rather than behaviour that stops the badly behaved child from learning. Also, I don't think that I would consider that a disruptive pupil who prevents learning and is rude is ever "nice" unless they have some form of SEN, there's no excuse.

For example as long as work is done I think there is no problem with talking

How can the others be learning effectively when someone else is taking.

It's not minor. It's disruptive and rude and the sort of low level disruption that has teachers leaving in droves and otherwise 'nice' kids unable to achieve their full potential.

I would describe children as bad or nice. If they have done their work but are continually talking they are preventing others from working and need to be disciplined as per the school behaviour policy..

I would not think a child that is talking as bad more inconsiderate

Sorry meant to add, I wouldn't personally call a student "bad". I would say their behaviour was bad.

Children who constantly talk are behaving in a disruptive way and if I were teaching them, I would need them to stop.