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Original poster

Extra Time Issue with school - lack of record keeping.

33 replies

Wheresthebeach · 19/12/2018 14:23

Looking for advice on how best to tackle an issue with the school.

Previous SENCO confirmed DD's extra time for GCSE's. New SENCO has said rules have changed, and they have no proper records, apart from my emails, about agreements. No Form 8 has been completed for my daughter.

So her extra time is going to be taken away. I've not told DD, because she'll have a melt down frankly. She uses every second of her extra time. It was based on eye sight, but she's got processing issues as well.

Looks like we'll have to fork out for a new assessment and hope that her processing is still slow enough to qualify.

However, new Senco did say (on the phone) that if a Form 8 had been completed last year, that DD would have kept the extra time as the application would have been made and approved. So my question is - is there anyway that permission could be given in light of the schools lack of administrative competence or are we just stuck? Also does anyone know about the rule changes that have been introduced so I can be up to speed and in the best position to help DD?

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Original poster
Wheresthebeach · 13/05/2019 20:32

Just a short update. We had to get a full assessment done elsewhere as the school Senco couldn't do the full battery of tests.

Very relieved that DD still qualifies, so good news all round. Thanks to everyone who commented. Been a long old time sorting it out!

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Bluebonnie · 23/12/2018 09:17

School must commission a qualified assessor to test pupil at the start of the GCSE course - no earlier than Year 9. They can no longer accept assessments commissioned by parents. These are the rules.

Flyingarcher · 21/12/2018 17:14

They have to be redone to accord with the JCQ requirements. The school should be able to do them or if not have someone they regularly use.

sevensatsumas · 20/12/2018 16:10

TOWRE2 and RAN/RAS are assessments of phonological processing speed. A below average score in a sub-test from either assessment will qualify for extra time.

sevensatsumas · 20/12/2018 16:08

The assessment must be completed no earlier than Year 9 - it sounds like your assessment is out of date.
For pupils with SPLD/dyslexia the assessment must be administered either by the in house assessor, an LA assessor or an external assessor who has an existing relationship with the centre. The assessor must complete and sign section C of form 8, but they can't do that unless parts A and B have already been completed by the SENCO.

Original poster
Wheresthebeach · 20/12/2018 16:03

I remember the last assessment being a couple of hours. What is the TPWRE2 and the RAN/RAS?

The stress is around the fear of losing the time, some of the kids don't seem to use it all, but DD always uses every second.

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noblegiraffe · 20/12/2018 16:03

The rules haven’t changed to stop kids who need extra time getting extra time. Loads of kids get extra time. She just needs to be assessed, and teacher evidence provided. Y10 is loads of time.

Original poster
Wheresthebeach · 20/12/2018 16:01

Does anyone know if processing speeds can improve? What's the logic behind saying they need to be retested? (I mean apart from the rules saying so).

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Flyingarcher · 20/12/2018 15:59

The tests are not onerous on the pupil, btw. The TOWRE2 takes two lots of 45 seconds and the processing from RAN/RAS or CTOPP not long. The DASH handwriting is ten mins. There isn't anything too stressful unless a student has very severe difficulties so ask the SENCO whom they use for assessments and go with them.

Original poster
Wheresthebeach · 20/12/2018 15:59

They are saying no proper records have been kept. That the rules have changed and the previous agreements no longer qualify her for extra time. That if the previous SENCO has done a Form 8 then it would be fine.

However, her old E Phych also shows slow processing, so if we retest, and its still slow then we will apply that way. I was just hoping to avoid the cost and stress of another assessment. New SENCO seems very dismissive about the upset this has caused, we just got an email saying its not valid anymore.

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Flyingarcher · 20/12/2018 15:56

83 is absolutely fine. Time to be 'that mother'. Was she assessed when in secondary? If not then she will need to be.

noblegiraffe · 20/12/2018 15:46

I’m confused that if she’s in Y10 they’re saying her extra time will be taken away, not that they just need to do assessments and sort some paperwork. Why are they talking about it being taken away when she needs it?

Original poster
Wheresthebeach · 20/12/2018 13:04

Sevensatsumas your a star. Thank you. They've admitted this wouldn't have been necessary if Form 8 had been completed last year so point 3 should get some action!

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sevensatsumas · 20/12/2018 13:00

A Helen Arkell assessor will be very well qualified so you have a clear history of need and usual way of working established already.
If I were you I'd put pressure on the SENCO to get someone in to assess.
Quote these JCQ regs - see bullet point 3:

4.2.11
Failure to comply with the regulations contained in this document have the potential to constitute malpractice which may impact on the candidate’s result(s).
Failure to comply is defined as:
• putting in place access arrangements that are not approved; or
• permitting access arrangements within the centre which are not supported by the required evidence as per these regulations; or
• not putting in place appropriate arrangements for candidates with known and established learning difficulties/disabilities.

Original poster
Wheresthebeach · 20/12/2018 12:32

She was assessed at the Helen Arkell Center.

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sevensatsumas · 20/12/2018 12:18

School probably don't have someone on staff who is qualified to assess - doesn't sound like the SENCO is qualified.
Ask them what they usually do for exam arrangements. Schools often get a specialist assessor to come in from the LA but they may have to pay.

Who was it who assessed her initially?

Original poster
Wheresthebeach · 20/12/2018 10:42

No Malbecfan I've not asked yet, as its only come up in the last couple of days. I know her teachers will support it. The previous Senco also felt that anxiety would be an issue too, but this one is dismissing all past conversations.

Her processing score was 83, so I'm worried that its so close to the cut off point. Having the eye sight as the reason for the extra time just took the stress away.

I don't know how easy it is for processing scores to 'vary' according to the day.

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Malbecfan · 20/12/2018 10:04

Have you asked round her teachers if they have evidence of it being used? I keep a copy of all our departmental evidence filed by year group and child in case we ever need it so could lay my hands on it fairly easily.

Original poster
Wheresthebeach · 20/12/2018 08:19

Thanks Mouse - so why doesn't the assessment count as part of the core evidence? That seems bonkers. School says they can't do the assessment so it has to be someone linked to the school?

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mouse2009 · 20/12/2018 06:40

Talk to the SENCO before you spend money on a private assessment. Assessments for the form 8 have to be completed by the school specialist assessor, this will be someone either in school or who has a relationship with the school. Results from a private assessment will not form part of the core evidence required. It is definitely not too late for an application for extra time, even if she was in Year 11. The school have to have evidence that she needs and uses her extra time. For a student with a visual impairment the SENCO needs to satisfy the five following conditions -: 1) confirm the candidate has persistent and significant difficulties...and is disabled within the meaning of the Equality Act 2010. 2) evidence of how their difficulties substantially impact on teaching and learning in the classroom 3) evidence from teachers that they need 25% extra time. 4) confirm without extra time they would be at a disadvantage 5) confirm extra time is their normal way of working. Additionally this needs supporting with a letter from a professional such as hospital consultant, local authority sensory impairment service or EHC plan. You must speak to the SENCO, if this isn't fruitful then the headteacher. You could be wasting your money on a private assessment as it shouldn't be necessary and can't be used by the school as core evidence.

Original poster
Wheresthebeach · 19/12/2018 23:00

Thanks flyingarcher I'm not worried about teacher support - I know that will be forthcoming. We were hoping to roll back the clock I guess to avoid putting her through more tests. Upset that the eye tests no longer accepted. It just seems to change all the time.

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Flyingarcher · 19/12/2018 21:07

Grrrrrrrr. They need to test her for speed of processing and speed of reading. If the scores are low enough then they can start gathering evidence now. They don't need to apply for EAA yet for her. Ive not applied for my year 11 and 13 yet, all forms are prepped ( and regularly added to with updates on picture of need) and i will apply as soon as I get back to school.

Ive just had a year 13 come out of the woodwork. Ive stacks of evidence and will see how he mocks go using ET and then apply.

New SENCO should test - should only take half an hour max and go from there. However, they needn't accept an external report. Given that there is evidence that your daughter has used ET before since year 7 and all she needs to do is collate this via a email to staff, then there is a substantial body of evidence.

Original poster
Wheresthebeach · 19/12/2018 17:44

Your so right DIN2K. It always seems such a bloody fight. It seems so unfair - the extra time makes such a difference. If the brain power isn't there then all the time in the world won't help (flashback to me and maths exams...could have left me there for days and it wouldn't improve my mark!).

Its like the education system has been turned into a speed writing exercise rather than one that cares about quality of ideas.

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DIN2K · 19/12/2018 17:30

Oh dear. I hope things work out for you Where's the beach.

The whole thing is SO frustrating. It's about equality of access after all. No one is trying to cheat the system.

I get so cross when I think of all the mums who don't know they are supposed to push and shove and jump through hoops.

Original poster
Wheresthebeach · 19/12/2018 17:22

We're a behavioural optometrist too. Costs a small fortune, as do her glasses with bifocals and prisms. Up until 48 hours ago we were told it was all okay.

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