Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

11+ Self Tutoring

38 replies

JustKeepSwimmingJustKeepSwimmi · 01/12/2018 20:50

we live in a v selective Grammar area and we cant afford to tutor. I used to teach but not primary/11+ material.

What do I need to do to help my child with the 11+? Did anyone else do this?

I was thinking the 9-10version of the 11+ booklets initially (weve started one of these) for my year 5 child. We have 3 subjects. Presumably we need to move onto the 10-11 version before they have even finished year 5 material in school!?

How much prep should I be looking at. An hour a weekend initially and the 10min a a day books in summer?

My child does sport and other extra curricular so we dont have tons of time but she is quite geeky and superbright so the grammar would probably be a good fit.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Original poster
JustKeepSwimmingJustKeepSwimmi · 02/12/2018 19:19

Genius Hercules12!

OP posts:
Hercules12 · 02/12/2018 19:04

Dd us in superselective. The best bit of advice I had was for her to do practice papers in McDonald's. Loads of distractions and as it happens in the real thing there were a lot of things going on around her.

Original poster
JustKeepSwimmingJustKeepSwimmi · 02/12/2018 18:51

No they arent the same. We are GL.

OP posts:
Furrycushion · 02/12/2018 18:46

Where are you based? I don't think CEM & GL assessment are the same,are they? Aren't the exams one or the other? Disclaimer: not an expert!

Original poster
JustKeepSwimmingJustKeepSwimmi · 02/12/2018 18:06

Snapped - I might do that, there are places locally that offer this. It feels easy money for those offering them, but i dont think I can create the same feeling of going somewhere else for exam conditions in my own home and with me!!

I do have some GL assesment and markschemes (the grammar in our area uses these).

Im reasonably good at teaching GCSE and A Level exam prep /reading the question/facing nerves in first few moments and self confidence/timing but will need to get up to scratch with the 11+ requirements. I will join the 11+ forum next year I think!!

OP posts:
LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 02/12/2018 18:01

Look for schools publishing past exam papers and mark schemes (Manchester grimmer school for example).

SnappedandFartedagain · 02/12/2018 17:57

My DD2 just passed the 11+ with a high enough score to be guaranteed a place at the grammar school. I did all her prep myself with Bond Online and past papers but in the few months before the exam I booked her a course of mock 11+ exams at Chukra and Susan Daughtrey. I would really recommend the mock exams as it’s all about getting their timing right and building confidence in exam conditions.

Another thing we did was paired reading. I bought two copies of some classic novels and we would read together, taking it in turns to read aloud and then I would ask her questions about what we had just read as we went along. It really helped with her comprehension.

Original poster
JustKeepSwimmingJustKeepSwimmi · 02/12/2018 17:46

Im not using Bond at the moment. Im using CGP and there isnt a level above the 11+ (which has 10-11 on)!!

The blurb for the 10min practice tests for the 11+ (10-11) CGP is that they are 11+ questions. Certainly the ones I'm using appear to be similar to the past papers.

There doesnt appear to be a level above the 11+ (10-11) in the series I'm using. The practice books prepare for the tests, the 10min books are short versions of the test.

In teaching I tend to use actual practice papers sparingly until towards the end, as it isnt nec to spend a whole 45/50 whatever it is minutes each day to revise. Its also not nec to do the whole test each time (hence 10min practice books). I have bought actual past papers from GL rather than any other brands version of them as for that stage I want the real thing!

Im sure if people started before year 5 the children might be already familiar with the style of questions and could spend more time on the 11+ material, but certainly what we're doing is currently working in terms of spotting sequences etc for verbal reasoning. It seems a small leap to the next stage which she could now comfortably do a lot of having practiced the easier skills. Hopefully the same for maths and English! I know for Maths in particular there were whole areas our school hadnt taught by the end of year 5 that were then tested on as they are part of year 6 curriculum, just not covered yet!

Im planning to introduce some actual timed 11+ tests after Easter, giving over 4 months with them.

OP posts:
Hiddeninplainsight · 02/12/2018 17:11

JustKeepSwimming - I know what you mean! The Bond 10-11 are a level below. Which isn't entirely obvious, given they do the exam at 10-11! But they have an 11+ level which is just above. The 10-11 bond papers verbal and nonverbal are rather easier than the sample 11+ papers we have looked at. But I should add, I'm no expert. Just a parent trying to work it all out (my DD is the same stage as yours).

Original poster
JustKeepSwimmingJustKeepSwimmi · 02/12/2018 16:46

OneStep . I might do that, thankyou. Particularly after Easter when we are more exam focussed, thankyou.

A few years ago I was considering stepping into the world of tutoring 11+ myself, but I'm ideologically opposed to the amount of pressure and prep some parents put on children. Its a fine line isnt it!!

OP posts:
Furrycushion · 02/12/2018 16:44

The eleven plus forum is very helpful & people will give advice freely. Ignore the cynical old timers who jump on everything. They exist on every forum, but if you can get past that you will get a lot of help.

Original poster
JustKeepSwimmingJustKeepSwimmi · 02/12/2018 16:38

Ah thats where its got confusing Hidden the 11+ revision books in the GL series we have are for 10-11years on them. Im doing the level one below ( so in effect 10+!)

OP posts:
OneStepMoreFun · 02/12/2018 10:37

I don't know if it's still going but I joined the 11+ forum. Like mumsnet for the 11+ obsessed. there were some fantastically generous people on there who helped with exam technique and NVR VR tips - they were tutors, giving advice freely. It had a lovely atmosphere back then. Hope it's still the same now.

Greenleave · 02/12/2018 10:16

Format of tests might not be crucial at this stage at all. We never did or practised on CEM style books(completely unaware) however mine passed Henrrietta Barnet band A which later on we realised it was CEM on the first stage, there was a little time crunch however still managed to finish. We find vocabulary(or cloze) is hardest even with a book worm(might be reading but not understanding every single word. Comprehension is really hard too.

Hiddeninplainsight · 02/12/2018 09:55

My point was just that the 10-11 aren't the 11+ books. They are a level below. So I was agreeing with you that it makes sense to start with the level below and build up to the 11+ stuff. In my experience the 11+ stuff is a step up from the 10-11. But sounds like you are happy with your system and your DD is enjoying it, which is good.

Original poster
JustKeepSwimmingJustKeepSwimmi · 02/12/2018 09:27

TwoGin Thankyou - I've been looking at the GL website and have some past tests that we'll use next summer to practice. From what ive heard frombyear above me it seems all those things you mention are key! Theyre not taught speed/moving onto the next question at school.

MrsP i was perhaps thinking of doing something similar in August - 3 mornings and a mock test.

I had wondered about running a "mock test" for her and her friends who want to sit the 11+ but in her own home still feels very different to something external.

OP posts:
MrsPatmore · 02/12/2018 09:20

I agree that Bond is not that useful for a GL NFER type test but it's a good start. We did the 10-11 Bond at this stage in Year 5 then filled in some gaps. Old Athey papers I think were a similar format and you can try First Past the Post papers but these are harder so I'd leave those until June/July. Ds moved on to the GL practise paper packs from Easter onwards and we concentrated on speed (generally tests are 45/50 mins with 80 questions). We spent time also on practising filling out the separate answer booklets - so easy to get out of sequence under pressure. Ds did a couple of mock tests (Sutton and a super selective school's own one). This was around May and gave us all valuable experience of being in a big hall with several hundred other kids etc. It's pretty nerve wracking! Mocks will flag any weak areas and give you a general idea of where your child sits in a generally well prepared cohort.

Ds went to a group tutor though so we had a lot of guidance/experience.

TwoGinScentedTears · 02/12/2018 09:18

Go on the websites for the schools you're looking at. They should tell you if the test is CEM or Bond style.

I live in a ss grammar area and the Bond books weren't right for the test.

We didn't pay for weekly tuition but we read more old fashioned books together to help with the vocab needed. I did pay for a one off thing which was 3 mornings of revision and a mock exam on the week before the exam. It was really useful because we learned that ds wasn't great at Cloze tests (I'd never heard of them!) and that the exam was more about getting answers down fast-the majority of kids that didn't get in just didn't finish enough of the papers. I also learned that the exam is split into smaller sections and you can't go back over a section once the exam had moved on.

I have no idea if that's the same for your area and exam style but I'd start by finding all of that out.

Original poster
JustKeepSwimmingJustKeepSwimmi · 02/12/2018 09:16

Onestep glad youre on the same wavelenths as me! I think if i made it too hard early on she'd lose interest so I wanted to scaffold it.

She is an avid reader and we do read to her (although reading to her doesnt happen on late sport nights she always reads ) . I do think encouraging the love of reading and the library and bookshops etc has helped tremendously. And thankyou for the question ideas.

OP posts:
Original poster
JustKeepSwimmingJustKeepSwimmi · 02/12/2018 09:14

For the books were doing Im essentially using the 10+ books as familiarisation prior to using 11+ books. Its worked for verbal reasoning and given her confidence. I'll see if we can get the maths one done next. If she finds it easy now then in feb when we start the 11+ versions it will be am easy transition I think.

OP posts:
OneStepMoreFun · 02/12/2018 09:12

We bought the Bond books form WH Smith and worked through them. Start with well below 11+ and work up, as the younger ones are great fun and intorduce the concepts of VR and NVR cleverly and easily.)

Read aloud with DC every single night. Ask informal questions about the story as you go along, 'Why do you think he did that?' or 'What do you think they mean by that?' (if figurative use of language). Keep a notebook beside you and get them to shout out whenever they don't know what a word means (you can turn it into a game) Get them to guess form the context, then tell and have them write it down, with its definition in the notebook. (Top tip given to me by a very siccessful 11+ tutor)
Get them to write a short story at least once a month - maybe enter some competitions - and use their newfound vocab in the stories.

Original poster
JustKeepSwimmingJustKeepSwimmi · 02/12/2018 09:11

We may need to ramp it up a little. We did quite a bit in sept/oct and then havent so much this last month. A bit most days and I think she'd be there.

OP posts:
Original poster
JustKeepSwimmingJustKeepSwimmi · 02/12/2018 09:10

I did look at the bond online and it says they cover GL and CEM but they are different tests so wasnt sure if we'd do that. We have lots of books that have GL on the cover though and past papers from GL for the summer term.

OP posts:
Original poster
JustKeepSwimmingJustKeepSwimmi · 02/12/2018 09:08

Def will wotknon lots of proper mock tests from GL once shes covered the material . For now theres sort of mock tests in the book Im planning to use regularly once shes finished each book. No point testing until she knows the stuff, so focussing on getting to grips with it and then nearer the time actual exam technique.

OP posts:
Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies · 02/12/2018 09:07

Just to add, a PP talks about Bond. Some areas this might well be useful. But in my area, for example, Nfer set the test papers - and Bond are significantly different, even for the NVR which you might expect to be the same whoever sets them.