11+ process has to change...

I dont know what the answer is but i agree it has to change (or be abolished?). ATM grammar schools mostly just save well off families school fees.

In the past tutor meant externally taught/coached by someone with fee. It should have meant extra preparation for a test regardless by whom: from a prep(school), a tutor or parents. Many parents claim, our child didnt have tutor, only prepared by us via doing a, b, c. Well, its no difference. Prep/external/parents preparation dont guarantee 100% success unfortunately, how the child performs on the day can depends on loads of other things. I wish her best of luck for the up coming exams, there is still time. She might be better motivated after this experience. Fingers crossed. If we couldnt get rid of 11+ at all( and to be honest, its the only way to go to a selective school, it could be academically selective, musically or sport etc. there will be auditions, exams etc) then may be another approach from state schools is by just having tests in primary. I come from a country when everyone has exam every term from year 1 so really used to taking exam during school years.

Did the head of the prep recommend WHS as a good choice? If so I wouldn't be very impressed. Usually the heads are fairly conservative in their recommendations. Is it a rigorous prep that has a selective intake at 4+ or 7+?

I hate that the school heads continue to push this line of "you don't need to tutor". It's utter bollocks in London and they know it. They know 100% of their intake will have been prepared either by their prep school, a private tutor or by parents sat with the prep books. Either way you cut it they are all prepared in one way or another and that IS tutoring. The head of our prep finally stopped bullshitting and asked that parents let the school know which tutor etc so they could work with them. The senior schools will waffle on about all arounders but what they mean is all arounders who are bright enough and have been adequately prepared to pass the test. The academic senior schools live and die on their league table results. They want the parents who are willing to tutor and support in any way necessary. To say other otherwise is disingenuous.

Private schools can do what they like on entry selection.
If you do not like it, do not join in.

The 11+ tests children in ONE exam on ONE day
I know bright kids who didn’t do well and not so bright kids who did well due to coping well with pressure and having food exam technique.
It’s VERY unusual for dc to do well with no tutoring or at least doing lots of practice papers
Dd did really well but we aren’t putting her brother through it because he’s equally bright but in a very different way, which really isn’t compatible with the 11+ exam
I don’t know what the alternative is other than scrap the system completely

State grammar schools should be scrapped imo. The 11 plus is a horrible experience and system. If you live in 11 plus area it will affect your DC regardless of whether they sit it or not.

Private schools can obviously do what they like but I wouldn't choose to enter into that system and I dont see the point in complaining about something you chose to do.

Also the old classic about loving reading, English, writing stories etc is always good.

FWIW I’ve sat on the train next to a bunch of SHS girls on a few occasions and they always struck me as positive, well mannered and no bitching or obsessing about makeup etc. Gosh that sounds judgemental but there it is.

For SHS really focus on the "all about me" part of the exam. At home go over all your dd's interests again & again so she lists them all to you eg hockey, swimming, choir, guides, class eco monitor, etc. Talk about what she wants to be later in life, ie doctor, teacher, lawyer because "i love helping people" etc. Focus on SHS 6 super sports and talk about what an experience it would be to be in a gym or skiing team. When you pick her up from the exam you want her to say, "yes mum i completed the last paper and mentioned all the things we talked about". There was a new question last year about challenges or what you find difficult, I can't remember but someone else will.

Sadly I agree that in London at least it is totally disingenuous for the heads of grammars and of selective independents to play the “ you don’t need tutoring”tune. It is an arms race with hyper competitive and motivated parents priming their kids at least a year in advance. A poor unprepared DC is at an immediate disadvantage. In all-grammar areas such as Kent ( away from the London borders) ie my old grammar in east Kent, being in top 25% at primary might well be sufficient but not round here.
DS is in a London super selective and at open day the head said “ if your child is in say the top 3 of his class, that’s the child we are looking for , you don’t need any “ fancy” tutoring” ( whatever that is)! Everyone nodded politely, no one believed it. DS has found out since attending that most of his classmates were intensively professionally tutored or went to prep schools where there is preparation for the grammar school tests.

That's a good spread of schools. Surbiton High has got more competitive I hear but last year everyone I know who applied there from our school got in and everyone I know who went there is very happy.

Granmar schools aren't for well rounded children, they are for highly academic children

Maybe round your way, not mine. Which is a full grammar county. My DC are both at grammars which are interested in and celebrate the whole child, not just academia. I think it’s very different in a full grammar county where the top 25% attend.

In the past WHS interviewed nearly all applicants, but numbers have increased so massively (due to new and popular head?) that they have to cut off somewhere. JAGS have done the same.

From my Year 6 girls last year, quite a few of my bright, but not intensively tutored girls got through the JAGS pre-test, while the heavily tutored but not actually brilliant didn’t make the first cut.

"Gorobe", do you have a back up school where your preps feels you will certainly get a place? If so focus on that with your dd, if you post the name or area located we can suggest entrance exam papers on school websites that you can practice for that level but to be honest your Prep should be guiding your dd through this and focusing on exam technique, spelling lists & challenging maths problems at this late stage in the term. Make sure your dd reads an inspiring novel over Christmas that she can talk about with passion. ie Hitler's Canary by Sandi Toksvig.

WHS is a high achieving school for highly academic & talented dd's. It's no big deal to not make it past the first stage as long as the other schools you have registered with are at differing levels of entrance ability.

SW London entrance exams are a challenge for all and each year there are disappointed parents & prep school heads surprised at the increased competition.

Having been through the WHS process I think that the NVR/VR actually favours the less tutored as tutors around here in particular only do maths and English. When DD went through it there was a real mix of who got through and many who got Putney, G&l etc didn't get WHS offers and vice versa. Many of the prep schools around here also say WHS offers are the hardest to predict.
I don't think the new 1st round makes much difference to be honest- I'm sure before they automatically discounted the bottom half as well.
A great school for your DD will be out there- where else are you applying?

WHS like many selective independents all do their own "11+" based upon VR, NVR, English Essays, Maths, Science, interviews. Some do a couple of papers, some do all, or their own special mix. It is not really the 11+, as in grammer entrance, that you are doing.

If you are at a prep school, your DC shouldn't have a problems with these types of tests, as they will have been doing them all their lives, and certainly in the ones I know they ramp up the revision of these especially in time for the indie school examinations. So, I haven't seen that tutoring is big in these schools. I am sure we all do some books at home, but that is not tutoring, just practice.

It is a shame you daughter didn't get accepted in the first cut. That is not to say she isn't bright, or talented, but just that she doesn't fit WHS. Many of us have been there, you don't get an offer for your first choice, but my goodness, you may well end up at the perfect school for your child. IME indie schools are pretty good at picking the right candidates for their school. Get you DD to do some books over xmas, but don't make it the be all and end all. I am sure she will succeed wherever she goes.

Tbh you will always do better if you have spent time familiarising yourself with what the question style and understanding what they are looking for.

I had to do tests not that dissimilar with content to 11+ (verbal and non verbal reasoning, maths, sentence correction etc) but obviously at a much higher level for a post grad course. I am naturally bright and am well educated so could have a good go but was doing a great deal better once I was familiar with it and understood the way they were looking at things. And so I think without tutoring or parental help it will be much harder to pass 11+ exams.

I honestly wouldn't worry about it too much. There are lots of schools and only a few get an offer from every school they apply to. It's only because WHS have changed their admissions this year that it seems brutal. In January/ February children will be getting offers/ interviews/ rejections etc and everyone will end up somewhere.
WHS is full of bright girls who also do huge amounts of extra - curricular etc, they have to have a cut off somewhere.
I wouldn't worry about the tutoring too much- just do some practice papers at home. If your DD is getting an hours homework a day I'm guessing she's at a prep school so she is probably getting 'tutoring' there in a way. It's mainly state school children who have tutors around here as they have no help at school.

If she's not the academic now then it's unlikely that school would have been a good fit. If you aren't willing to tutor/help when she hits rough spots as she progresses then none of the properly selective london schools are a good idea. Do you have any non-selective or less selective independents as back-ups? Or a are you happy with the comp you're in catchment for?

You could look for an intensive tutoring camp over the winter break but you've left it realllllly late and may not get a space. I think you need to really look closely at how well not only your daughter fits a school but how well it fits your ethos. The wrong fit can lead to a lot of misery for everyone.

Your other option is to send her to a prep that goes through to year 9. They will prepare her for common entrance otherwise known as the 13+. It would give her a few years to prepare.

WHS operate a 2 stage system because admittance is extremely competitive and they can't interview everyone, so they have first stage which is entirely academic before inviting the girls in. You say yourself your DD isn't overly academic, so the test is essentially doing its job.

Does your current prep not offer any advice? It's pretty well known how insane the London private school circuit is!

You have my sympathy but WHS is a very academic, highly selective school and you say your DD is not highly academic, so would this school have been a good fit for her. Schools like Emmanuel do really value children’s extra curricular activities, and other schools are less selective but still really good options. Rejection at the age of 10/11 is brutal but I’d be inclined to take a philosophical view if you can and hope that you find a school that is a good fit for your DD. Good luck

Easier to prepare academically than to prove your child is a good all rounder with the costs of extra curricular activities and transporting them to said activities as a single working parent. I paid less than £10 for a practice test book that my DC worked through independently. DC passed the eleven plus and easily got a high enough ranking to be offered a place at our local grammar.