Should teachers shout at kids?

As a teacher, I try to manage poor behaviour through good lesson planning. Basically, I take responsibility for poor behaviour.

If my lesson plans work, I never need to shout.

Whenever I have shouted, it has been an act, rather than from anger.

No, I don't think they should shout at children because the badly behaved children don't care, it's ineffective. However the more sensitive and anxious children who are well behaved can be really upset by it. If you have one of these children it doesn't matter how much you tell them it wasn't aimed at them and to let it wash over them etc they will be stressed and anxious meanwhile the badly behaved kid think it's funny to have made the teachers loose it

I’ve worked in Student Support in a secondary for the last 10 years.

By October half term Y7 boys have settled in and some are flexing their muscles (usually metaphorically but sometimes not) to show who is top dog in the playground and who isn’t afraid to take the teachers on.

I promise you, the kids who are still taking the teachers on and still spending time in detentions and isolations by Y11 are those with parents who chose to focus on how their darlings are being treated rather than what led to the consequences of their actions.

Do your son a favour and back the school.

tbh you are focusing on the wrong part. By focusing on should the teacher have shouted at him, you are lessening the focus on his defiant and inappropriate behaviour. You are also sending him all the wrong messages. Many teachers act angry when it is appropriate. With some children showing them in this way how utterly terrible their behaviour is can be very shocking and thought provoking for them especially if the teacher is generally very calm and measured. It does however depend on the child. I am a teacher and because I very rarely appear angry, children know that if I do raise my voice it is for a good reason. That said I would never be intimidating by shouting in a child's face. The point here is that you only have your defiant child's word for it that it happened in this way. Focus on his issues because if he was behaving no one would raise their voice to him, not you nor his teacher.

Just out of interest OP- how upset was your son? Did he cry or was he outraged and finger pointing?

In my experience, the first is a child who has been shouted at without good reason and the second is a little monkey trying to deflect any blame from themselves.

I do shout. But there is a difference between shouting to get the kid’s attention, screaming because you’ve lost control and speaking forcefully to a student who is unwilling to accept their responsibility in trashing a lesson.

I’ve only ever lost my rag totally once in the classroom and I think I scared myself more than anything else. If the teacher lost it to that extent then it would have taken a lot of goading from your son to get her there. Can you try to imagine how the other students, who just wanted to get on with their lesson felt about your son trashing any chance of meaningful learning that lesson?

Good grief 30+ teens and pre-teens 5 or 6 times a day with several being defiant/cocky/rude/doing anything but learn. Oh I'd have the odd shout too.

Please help the school.get the best behaviour out of your son. It's his bloody future they are trying to help with. Not something to do between 8.30 and 3.15.

Greensleeves I am not against going in to meet with the school. I am against going in with the view to challenge the issue of the ‘shouting’ and not to discuss how DS can inprove, as you say.

Mich0027

Yes my son was behaving defiantly but

There is the issue right there.

still... it's further damaged the relationship between teacher and student.

That is of course nothing to do with your Ds's behaviour, its all the teacher

Of course I feel immediately affronted by it but o want to be reasonable to the teacher too.

Then back the teacher and tackle the reason for the shouting, your son's behaviour.

Can't be an easy job

And you won't be making it any easier unless you back the teacher and stop your son's poor behaviour.

RolyRocks I agree that OP needs to address her son's defiant behaviour and sharpish. But as you say, 8 weeks into a new school and things are going so wrong - I don't think trying to arrange a meeting is unreasonable at all, parents and schools SHOULD be working together and communicating. If the school are ignoring OP's attempts to engage with them that is a concern imo.

I also think isolation is overused and can be counterproductive, but that's another thread.

8 weeks in to a new school and already your 11 year old is being that defiant that it has warranted an isolation and a reaction from the teacher that I would be (as a parent myself) focusing on that and not meeting with the school to discuss the relationship between the teacher and your DS. This doesn’t sound like a constantly ‘shouty teacher’ but a situation that has understandably resulted in this level of telling off.
It sounds like your DS is subconsciously deflecting from his behaviour by describing it as ‘right in my ear and spitting with madness’ and focusing on that to try and vindicate himself (which anyone would do naturally) and as a parent, I would be supporting the school in their behaviour management. It’s good for them to nip things in the bud early on and you don’t want your DS to even have an inkling that he can minimise future behaviour.

You need to speak to the school. Ask what happened. Don’t be “affronted”. Could be that he really was a totally defiant nightmare and this member of staff just lost it. (Not great) Or maybe he’s trying to make a complaint about the member of staff to draw attention away from his poor behaviour.

i’d be focussing on what my son had done to warrant it rather than a one-off incident of a teacher shouting at him.

You have no idea what actually went on so I’d be taking your son’s colourful description with a head of salt until I’d heard the other side if I were you.

If your son is behaving defiantly to a teacher in Y7 he needs to learn sharpish how to behave or he’ll have a long, hard road to travel until he leaves.

It's wrong for anyone to shout in anger at someone

Teachers can act being angry. They may shout when actually they’re perfectly calm. It’s part of the toolkit.

Onatree you have hit the nail on the head. So many parents fail to back the school and this is where the students learn that they can "ignore" the school because mummy will back me up.

Deal with your sons behaviour.

Onatreebyariver I agree with your completely. Teachers have a hard enough job already without parents failing to back them up. I also think that life being unfair is a good lesson for kids to learn. I've been shouted at by bosses. Unfair? certainly! Anything you can do about it when you have under two years service? Fuck all!

From the little you have shared it sounds like your sons defiance has caused this. He needs to not be defiant and follow instructions. How about you focus on your sons behaviour and not the teachers reaction. (when your son sees that your reaction is to complain about the teacher, this will further enshrine in his mind that he is right to be defiant).

I don't think a teacher should be shouting frequently: it's ineffective (children learn to ignore it) and creates an unpleasant atmosphere which can make quiet, well behaved children anxious.

Shouting occasionally as a behaviour management technique - I'm fine with that, particularly when it's controlled fake anger.

Shouting because a teacher has lost control of themselves and the class/ a particular pupil - far from ideal, but knowing what teenagers can be like I do sympathise.
I can still visualise one of my teachers at secondary school shouting, becoming bright red in the face and knocking a desk over. We were all shocked into silence, but at the same time very aware that he'd lost control.

If a teacher shouted at my dd, my focus would be on what she had done that had led to the teacher shouting at her.

What did he actually do/say?

Mich007 that doesn't sound great from the school then. I can see why you are worried that their approach is going to break down relationships further. I'd definitely be meeting with them in your position. Good luck with it

yes if my son was 12 years old and being so defiant as to cause a teacher to shout at him I'd back the school to the hilt.

Parents that don't are part of the problem with the discipline in the school system.

In my opinion of course.

Speaking as a former teacher, it's fine to strategically raise your voice in certain circumstances but never ok to shout in anger - it's aggressive and disrespectful.

Shouting over the whole class to be heard is fine but unless my child was putting themselves or someone else in danger I wouldnt be happy for them on their own to be really shouted at in anger.

Would you rather he spent 24 hours in an isolation booth? I wouldn't.

Not the teacher's finest moment I'm sure, but I'd have a chat with your son about why he's being openly defiant in school as well.