Worst set of GCSE results possible at private school (really)?

Clever kids will do well anywhere. Those who aren’t so naturally bright would no doubt benefit from smaller class sizes and more attention at a private school. Obviously private reduces the chances of associating with the riff raff, although there can still be bad influences there. The extracurricular activities and confidence building opportunities that private education provides are the real plus point, but they aren’t absolutely necessary for a successful life. People are free to make their own choices for their children, finance permitting, and no doubt make them thinking they are doing the best for them. That’s all we can do.

In the city I grew up in there were two spectacularly bad private schools. It wasn’t unusual for the pupils to not manage any O level at all, but they did get to wear straw boaters and learn dance and deportment. They were for the pupils who did not get into grammar school and whose parents couldn’t bear the idea of them going to a comprehensive and mixing with “rough kids” (though this was before the middle classes learnt how to play the system and the grammar schools were still managing to educate a lot of the bright “rough kids”) I have bumped into some of the former pupils and they are bitter about the lost opportunity. There are certainly still independent schools serving
that niche though they could not get away with not delivering at least some academic qualifications anymore.

The formula for an individual child to achieve their potential, however you measure that, is incredibly complicated and includes all sorts of social psychological and emotional factors as well as academic. I know of girls sent to the top girls’ schools in the country who switched to mixed schools because they couldn’t cope with the exclusive alpha girl behaviour, as in it threatened their mental health, in fact that was why the Duchess of Cambrudge left Downe House . Equally I know clever girls who have thrived in some of the worst performing comprehensives in the country, through being highly self motivated and with plenty of parental and other support. You have to make the decision on your child’s school based on their individual needs.

OP I hate to break it to you but I would not stay in Croydon because you percieve house prices are continuing to rise, ask an off duty estate agent, the outer London market is dire and only going to get worse.

“She squeaked into a local non-selective inde (The parents are absolutely militant against state education)”

Interestingly, we had that dilemma when we were looking at secondary schools for DD. In the end she went to the local comprehensive, achieved mostly A*/A plus 2 Bs at GCSE, and AAA at A level. I don’t think she would have done any better at the selective private school we were considering. Also, we now have the funds to support her through university.

BTW I went to a Croydon comprehensive back in the day . And back then Coloma had the highest abortion rate in Croydon. The boys from John Ruskin loved being near Coloma.

“My argument is that it's parental back-up that helps a child, not grades necessarily. It's having parents who actually care.”

I agree. When DD started to struggle with maths because she had a shit maths teacher we sent her to a tutor. I knew she was able, but needed to work at a slower pace, and needed someone patient to explain stuff to her. We were lucky, and DD achieved an A* in maths.

I’m not sure how schools can massage their GCSE results. For A levels it is easier because they simply ask the students to leave or drop subjects they are going to fail. DD’s school did this earlier this year. In the local paper they proudly announced a 100% A level pass rate, but this was at the expense of treating some students rather shabbily.

At my grammar school, I remember one girl in the year above got a Grade 1 for English Literature and failed everything else! You would have thought that was impossible. All results were published in the local newspaper in those days. My friend scraped 2 O levels and several in my year got 2, 3 and 4 O levels. They went into Hairdressing, Healthcare, Farming and to the college of FE to do secretarial training. Obviously they left at 16 which wasn’t particularly unusual either. The grammar had quite a broad intake and no-one expected a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. Grammar school on the cv meant that even leaving at 16 you were not held back.

When parents pay, I think it is for a variety of reasons. Sometimes the extended family has not ever been to state schools, sometimes people want “people like us” at their schools and sometimes they want better results and facilities than the local schools offer. Results are never a given of course and a broad education should be available at a private school.

Lots of girls didn’t get stellar A levels at either of my DDs independent schools but the schools gave them so much more. That was the point of paying.

I teach in an independent school. The students can still be lazy. If they don't engage and do the bare minimum of work, they will do badly. There are some parents that do expect the school to produce amazing results because they have paid for it. But if there is no way of forcing a student to remember or think if they don't want to.

And I agree, the quadrillion GCSE thing is such a diversion.

The local private school in town gets worse results and a far lower Value Added score than the best two comps in town.

It does out perform the shitty comps though.

Kids can go seriously off the rails wherever they go to school. I don't think it's the extremes we're talking about, is it?

A507Hojas should also have said that one of my DC’s went to a state comprehensive. It a very well regarded “high achieving” state school he left with 10 GCSE’s grade C and above and then went onto a well regarded 6th form college and got three reasonable grades at A level and is now at uni. I believe he could have done better but only because he has fairly significant SEN which were never properly addressed during his time at his state school despite them the school having him fully assessed by an ed psych which detailed his needs they ignored it. But I would also be the first to admit that they would not have been met any better in a mainstream independent school.

A508Hojas you clearly haven’t read many or any of the comments I’ve made over the many years I’ve posted on the education sections on MN. I challenge you too find any comment I’ve made about state school teachers spending all their time managing feral behaviour. I have never said that every independent school is better than state ed, as I actually don’t believe this, I don’t think I have ever commented about behaviour in state education versus behaviour in independent education. I have on numerous occasions stated that many parents are paying in the belief that their DC’s will get better results than their would have got in the state sector but I’ve also saId on numerous occasions that this may not be the case, I don’t believe that the independent sector had some magic wand and can turn an average child into a genius spoon feeding or not. I have also stated in countless occasions that I believe my DS2 could have got the same exam results in a good state school of which we have numerous ones round here. I don’t believe that every child will thrive and achieve in an independent school or that every will child thrives and achieve in a state school, I’ve worked in both sectors and have seen unhappy poor achieving children in both. It’s about finding a school that suits the individual child/parent and for those of us lucky enough to be able to afford school fees our chances of finding the right school is significantly more likely. I have also said on many occasions that many of the top independent school offer an education (in the broadest sense) that is in a totally different league to that offers in the state sector and that this is inevitable because they’re charging £40k+ PA but this doesn’t mean you child will get better exam results than he would in the state sector or go into a top university. Again those of us lucky enough to be able to afford fees can if we wish too place equal importance on the concept of this “broad education” be it an truest intellectual education not limited by syllabuses or exam results or sporty musical etc. But I can also assure you many parents in the independent sector are when the chips are down are not actually overly interested in this.

Family friend's daughter went seriously off the rails as a teenager (unsuitable boyfriends) and flunked all her exams (as in, actual failing them. U for unclassified or whatever it was in those days). She was at a private school and her education cost a LOT. On the other hand, she might have done the same at a state school. Bet her parents were pretty sore.

What is the actual point of 12 GCSEs? That's a serious question. I just cannot see the point and 99% of state schools have given up on this kind of stuff. Because it's pointless

HPFA I think that’s my point; for a very bright girl, the highly selective school would be great, but I’m sure she could do just as well in the all girls’ state school.

However, a less academically able girl would probably flounder in that environment, but still might excel at the state school because she would not be under such a lot of pressure.

It is surely about what school is right for each individual child?

I wouldn't send my sons to a state school in Lewisham
Good. Wouldn't want my sons to be mixing with a child with such prejudiced parents

A 15 year old boy was stabbed to death in Lewisham last week, a gang of 30 school kids attacked a 2 policemen in the street 2 years ago. Knife searches in the schools... several well regarded girls' schools though.

Sorry, meant to say Charles and Edward. I was there with the latter. A small mercy, I suppose, that further space wasn’t wasted by Andrew.

Prince Andrew went to Cambridge?! Nonsense.

Yes, sure, Princes Andrew and Edward got places at Cambridge because they did well in the entrance exam. I was at Cambridge with one of them. He and his security detail occupied four undergraduate rooms. He was not bright (understatement), had no conversation and did not distinguish himself. I had worked very hard to get there from a state school which rarely had Oxbridge candidates and I was furious (still am) that four places which could have gone to deserving applicants were wasted in this way.

How did Prince Charles and Prince Andrew got into Cambridge with such poor A-levels??

You only ever needed 2 Es in the old system to get into Cambridge - they ran their own entrance exam system and they considered this superior to the a level system.

Ds spent 8 years in the private system where he struggled and was predicted to “only” get Grades 5/6 in most subjects. In maths he had a 1:1 TA as he was deemed to be such a problem. This was supposedly the best school in the county.

We moved him “voluntarily” (before he was asked to leave) at the end of Year 8. Within 3 weeks he was moved into the top set for maths and science & is now on track for a Grade 8 in maths. (And he is much, much happier)

How did Prince Charles and Prince Andrew got into Cambridge with such poor A-levels??

However their results can’t touch the extremely academic private girls school in the town.

By "extremely academic" do you mean highly selective? In that case of course they won't!!

But how is that possible happygardening? According to you and the other privateschoolistheonlytypeofschoolacceptableformyparticularly preciouschildren, there is NO opportunity for spoon feeding at state school. State school is all about mangaingtheferallowerclasschildrenandnotdoinganyteaching. Isn't that so?

I wouldn't send my sons to a state school in Lewisham.

Good. Wouldn't want my sons to be mixing with a child with such prejudiced parents.

A589Hojas my recent experience is 2016/2017 (I’m unwilling to go into details as to how I acquired this experience) and is totally unrelated to my children’s education (who’s both left school by then. It encompasses about 12 schools in four LEA’s from super selective grammars through high achieving comps and those judged to be required improvement. I saw spoon feeding in all.
I’m not saying it doesn’t occur in the independent sector but I’m challenging the idea it only occurs in the independent sector.

I have to say - and I can see the logic in many of these posts and I understand that people just want their child to achieve the best they can (because I'm pretty sure that's what the vast majority of parents want), - that where I am there are very few independent schools and no grammars, so ds goes to the local comprehensive (and there is not much between them all, and generally children attend their nearest). He is only in y7 but so far doing ok and has many extra curricular opportunities, and appears to be having the kick up the bottom he requires to achieve what he is capable of.
Having said that, I went to an independent, academically selective secondary and think that my parents' (hard earned) money was well spent.