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Original poster

After school detentions and the law?

90 replies

BoooForYou · 31/10/2018 16:41

Hi long time poster but name changed
(LTB, cancel the cheque etc etc)

DD is year 7. Had a bit of an altercation before half term, silly really. All got given their maths test results and DD was a bit upset by hers (maths is her worst subject).
A lad in her class kept driving her mad to give her result over, she said no so he pinched her and told her to get a grip. DD, and no excuses for this at all, slapped him back.
I got a call at 2.55pm on the last day of term, apparently boy had written a statement backed up by another girl. Fair enough. DD not asked for her side though so could I ask and arrangement made for me to pop in on Monday after holiday.
DD explained the pinching and said she knew she shouldn't have slapped him. We did punish her for this (no tv, phone or net for 3 days, early bedtime too).
Relayed what happened on Monday and was told a minor punishment of missing a class to be in isolation would be given. Did say it was a bit OTT, she has never been in trouble at all before, but told school takes a firm line. I thought both her and the boy would be given same.
Was told I would be called with an update regards this punishment after she had spoken to DD and the other 2 pupils.
Heard nothing but thought school is busy so would hear in due course.
Our car is in the garage so I've been meeting her halfway. She texts on the way too from 3pm.
Waiting today and no texts. Started to worry by 3.05 so walked up towards school. Still not texts and no answer on phone.
Got to school by 3.15, member of staff who watches them leave even expressed concern as no clubs tonight.
Went into office to be told she is in isolation, where she has been all day until 3.30 (30 minutes after school).
No one around without an appointment to speak to but Secretary did say I am meant to be informed.
Finally she came over at 3.35 with one of the isolation staff who I calmly said I had no notification of any after school detention or that she was being isolated all day. Wad told "oh, my bad". Totally didn't see why I was worried!
DD now very upset, no longer wants to go to school and to make matters worse, homework due today wasn't handed in as they refused to allow her to hand it as she was in isolation so now, due to school rule, she will get another detention.
I am so angry by this. I get the need to punish, but surely they are legally required to inform me?
I want to raise it with Governors, DH says no, don't be that parent.
Where do we stand?

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Original poster
BoooForYou · 15/11/2018 10:10

This morning, as she's been off sick and we've all been unwell, I walked up with her as I had to pop in the coop opposite for lunchbox stuff.
Lucky I did as her (absolutely lovely) Form tutor was in there.
Had a very good chat with her, and DD did most of the talking. She said how she feels she has been blamed for everything, totally ignored and that she can't stand up for herself or she will be in it again.
Form tutor listened to her, then DD spotted one of her mates and walked off with her. Form tutor said she is really not happy, she said she had already said how unhappy she was regards the all day sanction as they hadn't informed her. So she's now going to raise a concern herself. She did say that DD is a great kid, she doesn't want her to lose her confidence and we will work together.
It's good to see a form tutor standing up for her student actually. She's very young and new this year too. I hope she'll get further than me!

OP posts:
Pythonesque · 15/11/2018 09:20

Arbitrary and excessive sanctions like this will very soon lead to a total breakdown of discipline in this school. If they are treating year 7s in this way, even these youngest students will rapidly lose all respect for those in charge and they will have no way to control anyone who wants to make trouble.

It sounds like they are trying to create an explanation to justify having applied a sanction that was way out of order. I hope you can get things sorted but agree you need to get her down on waiting lists to move schools or something because sadly I can't imagine this ending well. (Unless, perhaps, the head or other relevant staff leave and are replaced by someone more realistic and very experienced!)

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 14/11/2018 19:05

I think I'd be paying a solicitor to draft my complaint and oversee liaisons. They have behaved so unprofessionally and seem to be taking a view that the best form of defence is attack! I don't know how your dd can stay here - the relationship with school has irreparably broken down.
Under no circumstances should you allow your dd to sign this, even if they make the other pupil do so, which seems not to be the case.

youarenotkiddingme · 14/11/2018 18:40

I actually want to respond - but I'm not sure there are actual words 😡

SnuggyBuggy · 14/11/2018 17:19

If her tormentor also had to sign it that would be one thing. Maybe the teacher should also sign something to promise not to ignore bullying in class

Original poster
BoooForYou · 14/11/2018 13:19

Another update, not been able to do much as we've all had the most horrendous bug since the weekend.
Had an email today just as I'm feeling more human and about to speak to governors for their backing. Came from the woman they want us to liase with from now on.
Well, if I wasn't already miffed and attempting to remain calm and dignified Wink) I'm really losing that will now.
She wants DD to sign a behaviour contract, agreeing she will not be "disruptive, violent or abusive" again.
DH had to stop me sending that gif back of a woman opening an umbrella onto a middle finger salute.
So, first they admit that they broke their own policy, that they still have not gotten DDs side and they come up with the third different version of the same incident. They lie that I was told when I wasn't and ignore the whole, denial of a days education/teacher having no control of class/refusal to come and speak to me as I didn't have an appointment. They now expect me to get DD to sign some utter rubbish practically blaming her again.
I am currently drafting an email to the governors but I will be raising this further as this is an absolute joke now. How about they sign a piece of paper promising not to silence and victim shame her ever again?
So cross!

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JohnMcCainsDeathStare · 12/11/2018 18:14

Make it clear that removing DD is a last resort because apart from the Maths teacher and those in the detention room she is generally happy there. However, if they are not addressing the issues with safeguarding and communication (DD's form tutor being ignorant of the detention) and the lack of punishment for the boy in question.

Ultimately you cannot reason with stupid. It is like reasoning with the dead. A dead person is in no pain since they are dead and the pain is everyone else's as it is for stupid people and policies.

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 12/11/2018 16:39

Put everything in writing (I'm sure you have already, but just in case) - get all the details down clearly now, with dates/times if possible, so you don't forget anything and can highlight how their version of what happened, deviates from what actually occurred at each stage. Complaining to the governors is the step you have to go through next, but I wouldn't leave it there if they fail to address this properly. The school lying and covering their own arses at the expense of the students has to be challenged as high up as you can go. They have failed your dd but they are also setting this boy up for all sorts of future trouble if they don't deal with his behaviour properly now.

Original poster
BoooForYou · 12/11/2018 13:24

I would agree except that I spoke to the local authority regards escalating my complaint (which I can't do at this point, it now has to go to the governors) and mentioned I'm that disappointed I'm considering removing her. The woman told me if I do, I will find it very difficult to get her in anywhere else, there is already a waiting list of kids who didn't get a place at their top three choices plus kids who have no place at all. The only school who might have a space is one which is constantly in the local paper for being a hell hole.
The other issue is, she actually gets on well with all but the maths teacher, she's obviously not keen on the wellbeing zone where the exclusion room is now but she hadn't visited there since they had a walk round the class spaces on the first morning. She's made a really good group of friends as well so, barring the day it happened and the day after she's adamant she doesn't want to leave.
She actually hears us discussing it and said she doesn't see why she should leave as she's not the one in the wrong.
All I can do is escalate to the governors. I think I may get a far better reception from them.

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youarenotkiddingme · 11/11/2018 12:07

Totally agree with above posters.

Been there and cried into that T shirt.

Not worth it

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 11/11/2018 11:52

Agree that you need to withdraw her from this school - they are dishonest, do not have a grip on student behaviour (or the means to establish what is happrning under their noses)and do not have your child's best interests at heart. They are all about blaming the victim and covering their own arses.
I would escalete to governing body and LEA but would still take my child out of this environment.

Whyohsky · 10/11/2018 13:21

Just move her, you can’t reason with stupidity like this.

Original poster
BoooForYou · 10/11/2018 11:34

No they're one of few in our area not in an academy. They're a specialist sports college but that seems more about the funds they receive than anything else as they don't take kids on sports ability alone.

I just find it so rude to pass the blame to me! Don't get me wrong, it has made DH and I discuss making her more independent. We still have no car as ours is off to be crushed but I've walked her as far as the road her school is on and let her go off the rest and she texts when she gets there.
DH is in agreement we should escalate it, otherwise, we're putting DD in a position where she won't stand up for herself for fear of them pulling a stroke like this again.

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SnuggyBuggy · 10/11/2018 10:50

These academies sound hideous. I would escalate.

youarenotkiddingme · 10/11/2018 10:38

Is this an academy?

You have a chance to escalate this.

Points I'd raise are

•they should minuted the original meeting as it was re behaviour and related to a policy.
•behaviour policy states that school will seek witness reports and all sides.
•original report was maths teacher reported - why were you given incorrect information?
•why were you waiting for 15 minutes whilst the receptionist searched for DD if you and indeed them had been informed of her whereabouts in a previous discussion.

Then I'd end that as they clearly can't communicate effectively between themselves that you 100% agree that any further meetings should be minuted. And that as is your legal right you will be recording them for your own personal use to check their minutes against the conversation had to back them up in ensuring all information is correct and there's no misunderstanding.

Usually I'd say drop things like this for an easy life. But having been through similar with my ds and it ending up in the child who always 'got away with it' pulling a knife on him in class a few weeks later I'd say you need accurate records.
The academy didn't even take witness statements for this incident informing me "ds didn't want to". Except autistic ds didn't say that and actually made statement to police as school wouldn t and "that's the rules" 😂

La were so desperate to cover it up they arranged for him to transfer to a great secondary that's always over subscribed!

ivykaty44 · 10/11/2018 10:01

I would explain to the school that they cannot expect support for their regime if they are untruthful and do not punish all students that were violent during the incident. They can expect this to happen

Original poster
BoooForYou · 10/11/2018 09:54

Received an email quite late last night.
We are now not having a meeting, just an attachment with their response.
Have to say, I am really pretty unimpressed.

Basically, they're saying the woman I met with on the Monday (The "my bad" woman) has denied not having told me of the in school exclusion, how it carries on after school, and says that it's my fault they didn't ask for DDs side as they told me to get this myself.
This is all categorically untrue. She said she would speak to DD then get back to me before a decision was made.
They've not even commented about how she missed a whole day of education.
To make it worse, I was told originally that her maths teacher had raised that there had been an incident in class- it now turns out pinch boy and kick girl went to student well being and reported DD slapping pinch boy. They effectively went to do that knowing the trouble it would cause. They have still not been punished. I'm not telling DD that happened as she's already worried enough without her finding out that you can be hit and then grassed up.
They've said they don't believe they acted badly due to my not knowing where DD was as when I went to the office they told me. They maintain though that my bad woman told me, yet can't explain why the office told me 15 minutes after I was waiting and trying to get hold of DD.

The rest makes me sound awful, they're now going to minute any discussions I have if I speak to any staff again. They wouldn't have broken their behaviour policy if I had of gotten DDs side. They also deny she was distressed or that I had reason to be.

I'm so cross. It makes me sound like I'm on the phone or in school kicking off every day. The one thing they admit to not following is the behaviour policy but then that's turned into my fault too.

I'm thinking I should escalate it now, but worry that after raising this, justifiably I feel, they now act like I'm an arse and a nuisance and I don't want to make it worse for DD or myself.

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Original poster
BoooForYou · 08/11/2018 16:56

It suggests 2 weeks
The Head teacher did respond within an hour of me sending it though, the only reason I thought I would've heard by now was she said she had asked the Deputy Head to investigate and he would get back to me early this week.
I just want it all dealt with now. Not for me but for DD who feels like she's about to get in trouble at the drop of a hat.

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BubblesBuddy · 08/11/2018 15:18

What does the school’s Complaints Policy say about when they must respond after a complaint is received? A week isn’t very long. They should acknowledge receipt though.

Original poster
BoooForYou · 08/11/2018 11:14

Yes I agree.
I totally get that they need to teach that retaliation is never the answer, but this was totally OTT when they didn't also discipline the child who kicked it off in the 1st place.
I mentioned it to her old head yesterday as I'm helping out with a PTA event tomorrow and she always asks after DD. She was horrified! She said DD was well behaved and anytime they had a minor issue they knew they could work together with me.
I'm really starting to get miffed that it's been a week since I emailed and they've still not finished investigating. Its not exactly difficult to work out they failed to follow not one but two separate procedures put in place by the school. They didn't ask for her side or speak to any children who weren't involved directly with the incident. They didn't follow the behaviour policy and give her a verbal warning for a first offence but went straight for a in school all day exclusion and after school detention. And they didn't give me 24 hour notice of keeping her in all day and after school.

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SnuggyBuggy · 08/11/2018 08:16

I can really see why some kids who are fine at primary do so badly at secondary. It's hard adjusting to a big impersonal environment but throw in poor supervision, draconian policies and unpleasant staff then no wonder.

ivykaty44 · 08/11/2018 08:12

What sort of institutions are some teachers running 😳

Original poster
BoooForYou · 08/11/2018 08:08

@whyohsky At first when she came home and on Thursday morning she was adamant she was never going back to the school. Then just after 3pm, she started getting texts and calls from her mates, all upset, and all begging her not to leave and not to let it bother her. So she changed her mind. That's why I'm trying really hard not to lose my temper and allowing the school to investigate and explain what in earth they thought they were doing, not just on the possible safe guarding issue of not informing me out of courtesy that she would be kept in an extra half hour, but also the whole not asking her side before punishing her alone, the whole rudeness of the staff to her and to me, and the fact she missed an entire days work. I'm still as of this morning waiting for the deputy head to get back to me with his findings as per what the head teacher told me last week after I made the formal complaint.
I've had to email her again as another boy, friend of pinch boy, decided to tell people she was in tge exclusipn room all day for beibg racist to him. This is categorically untrue and never mentioned to me at any point, but as I've now said to the school, all they have achieved is to make my DD feel she can't stand up for herself and won't be given the chance to give her side. The Boy who pinched her is also going to think he is like the Teflon Don of Year 7 who can be a ragtag to his peers and get away with it, and any other little git who fancies it can be off about her too. She was really panicked by it as she said she was worried they would come and pull her out of class again on his say so.
But apart from that we wait and see.

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MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig · 07/11/2018 19:48

I’d be livid at keeping her after school without telling you, I don’t give a shit what the law thinks. My dd has just started at secondary and has to catch a bus and we live rurally. I hope you made that clear in your complaint, they might take it a bit more seriously next time and adjust their procedure. It might well be a rural child another time and if they haven’t notified the parents how the hell are they meant to get home? Sounds like a safeguarding issue to me. Perhaps it will get back to the governors in their data report that the current procedure isn’t quite working and they can do something about it. The draconian head still needs to answer to the governors.

Whyohsky · 07/11/2018 19:20

I’d remove my child from a school like this, sounds Draconian! She was pinched so she defended herself. Nothing wrong with that. Victim blaming at its worst.

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