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Chav chants and violence at Whitgift

35 replies

googoogaga1 · 25/10/2018 19:42

Hi,

Until I learned of the recent nastiness from Whitgift parents towards John Fisher School’s team and their parents at a recent home rugby fixture, we had set our hearts on putting DS2 forward for the Whitgift 10+. He was a talented dual-code rugby union and league player for his prep school back in Oz and Whitgift really appealed both on the academic and sporting fronts.

However, the incident with JFS has left a bad taste in our mouths, especially given the press coverage the incident received. DH was a pupil at John Fisher back in the early 90s when the school was ‘selective’ and used to play Whitgift and Dulwich and the like regularly. He says there was never any of this kind of nonsense between parents or the teams. While we had considered JF for DS2 before moving back to the U.K. (coming from Oz), we were advised by friends that the school had changed considerably from back then and how DH may remember it. Both DH and I (public non-selective state school in Queensland) have no problem with DS2 attending a regular type school so long as the academics and sporting culture are strong, yet Whitgift just seems light years ahead on all fronts.

Am I being silly to let an incident like this bother me? I really don’t want to consign DS2 to a school which lords it over his state school contemporaries. Are Whitgift parents arrogant and class conscious? Are John Fisher parents these days regarded as ghastly peasants or ‘chavs’?

OP posts:
AveEldon · 26/10/2018 17:45

Have you seen the school for yourself?

googoogaga1 · 26/10/2018 16:49

out pruning the bushes,

Accept it's probably a minority of rugger parents behaving in this way but even so.... coming from N-E Australia, the image of the arrogant, rampaging English public school boy really isn't something that we appreciate as a family.

Unfortunately, we and DS2 are not up for tutoring/supertutoring to pass the 11+, just seems like a weird and antiquated way to treat 11 y/o children.

But that leaves us caught between the private schools and the grammars... we don't want DS2 to go to school where there are none of the most able boys.

OP posts:
outpruningthebushes · 26/10/2018 15:52

OP,

(Now happily retired :) ) I taught at John Fisher and several of the public schools in Croydon and South London between 1985 and 2009. I was on the board of governors at John Fisher for a time during its selection policy.

Your DH could well have been taught by me, and I was quite possibly among the senior members of staff who interviewed him and his parents at the time :)

The education landscape changed considerably in this part of England post-2008, where a culture of supertutoring now prevails. Prior to this John Fisher, Coloma Convent and a few more leading faith schools used to select pupils at 10+ interview, which appealed to parents turned off by the culture of tutoring and pressure created by the presence of the few grammar schools in LB of Sutton, which select in a very narrow and unforgiving manner it could be argued. The selective faith schools also looked for talent in sport, music and the arts, so were attracting all-rounder types and children who otherwise might have ended up at Whitgift or Trinity. At John Fisher we recruited at 10+ intelligent, articulate young men with the use of interviews with the boys and parents, primary and prep school reports, and written applications from the boys. We also conducted a short written exam for Catholicity, which we would then quiz the boys on. The composition of the boys selected was usually around 30:70 (private prep school:state primary). Prep school boys were drawn mainly from Laleham Lea (the traditional feeder to John Fisher located on the same road). State primary school boys came from far and wide - even a few from as far away as Edenbridge & LB of Bromley (West Kent), Inner London Boroughs, Surrey, Sussex. John Fisher sent boys to the best universities, achieved pass rates usually in the region of 75-95% in any given year for boys achieving 5GCSEsA*-C.

Inevitably with the disadvantage the 2008 Code put the leading comprehensives at (the 5 grammar schools in Sutton, Kingston and Bromley now creaming-off the brightest boys) these schools have suffered. Where once John Fisher could compete on the rugby field and in the exam hall with the best independents, this has gone by the wayside somewhat.

Whitgift is a lovely, inspiring school. The overwhelming majority of boys and parents are conscientious, hard-working, committed to the school, its aim and ethos. The loutish chants and handbags at their rugby matches are, I expect, a small minority of a certain type of parent found at most public schools.

BerriesandLeaves · 26/10/2018 14:06

Maybe ask them how they'd react if a John Fisher parents spilled their pint?

Bluebonnie · 26/10/2018 13:20

Whitgift have to fill their places to keep the school going, with boys whose parents can afford full fees. At the margin, some boys are borderline acceptable, and perhaps their parents are too.

It would be interesting to know how they could screen the parents at interview. Any suggestions?

austenozzy · 26/10/2018 09:20

Dulwich have won the National schools cup multiple times in recent years, so might be a better bet for a rugby mad kid. Rugby was practically religion when I was there. I played with several future England players while there, although I was more of a cricketer.

austenozzy · 26/10/2018 09:17

Whitgift is in Croydon, what do you expect? Grin But I went to dulwich so might be more than a little biased...

AveEldon · 26/10/2018 09:07

The fixture went ahead this year
From the reporting on the incident in 2016 it was spectators from both sides

It was 2 years ago and one rugby match

Believeitornot · 26/10/2018 08:20

I would talk to the school about it. Air yourconcerns and gauge their response

DinkyDaisy · 26/10/2018 08:19

www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/news/croydon-news/rugby-matches-between-rival-croydon-2074668
Looks like the matches are back on this year..
I know nothing about either school but just done a bit of Googling.
Unpleasant behaviour from spectators it seems. The schools seem to want to sort things out according to this article.