Very High ability dd(111 in SATS) been put in bottom set maths-action?

Something sounds off. Whilst youd think she could end up in the middle set with an off day, that would have to be one major off day and for the school not to take anything else into account? There's no child with the same name as her or anything? I think all the people saying "she's not top top" are missing the point in the fact that she is clearly not bottom 30% in a comprehensive school and should not be doing a different scheme of work

If the work is too easy for her she's in the wrong set, it really is that simple I think. My concern is if she is doing a whole other textbook she could fall behind quite quickly of where she should be.

But she is not in the bottom 60 is she? And she is not bottom set, she is in the third set out of 6. I don't think it matters how well she did in the other sats, what matters is her maths score and how well she did in whatever she did at school and obviously the other kids did better than her. If she really is very high ability they will sooner or later notice and I would guess she would get 100% in everything

Hey @Mumof3xbears!

I was your daughter once. Bright, really excelled and then one day BAM! I got whacked into the bottom set for maths (270 pr year and I was in the bottom 30 having previously been top 30)

There were a whole host of reasons behind my setting which aren't worth going in to now but my mum spoke with the school and told me that this was my time to "show them how awesome you are." Exactly as a PP said.

So I did. I could VERY easily have half arsed the work, dossed about and still been top in that class as the work started off being far too easy but instead I diligently completed every page, every question at my best pace and then took it to the teacher saying I was done.
So then came the week of "page 136, all the odd questions. Space, you do all the questions"

Completed that before most of the class had completed a couple of questions.

My teacher was very good. He had the bottom set with the difficult and struggling students because he was so good. So he took work from higher and higher groups and taught the class then after I had completed that work I had more to do.

I was working at the top set level within a half term.

He discussed this with mum and I. We decided to keep me in the class for the full year. I think that chucking me in another class would have been a searing issue but also, my confidence in my ability was rocketing under his care.

The rest of the class kinda ignored me. That was fine by me.

A at GCSE maths, studied physics and Chemistry A levels. What I'm saying is it hasn't affected me.

It's worth having a chat with school as something seems off to me.

111 wouldn't be a top set child at my school as our top sets tend to be scores of 115+ but it's certainly not low.
CATs scores are useful because what can happen at primary is lots of rote learning and cramming for the questions rather than a sign of a child's aptitude across a subject, but it also seems wrong to be using them solely to set.

Why don't you just phone the school and say what you've told us?

I would expect them to have picked up by half term if she was in the wrong group and move her.

That should read may be, not ne be!

I've always taken the approach that going head to head with my DC's school is likely to do more harm than good. I've never intervened with stuff like this, but I don''t think it comes from not caring. Where mine weren't in the top set I didn't fuss about it at all, although I think my DC are pretty clever (although that ne be more in retrospect than at the time). That said, they all went to a selective school which makes a difference. But seriously, just leaving things be and raising queries in a mild way at parents' evening seems to me to be far more productive than fretty e-mails etc. Esp in Y7.

Crikey Cant where are you that 117 is top 10%?! (Is that maths?)

I just looked at the table again, 111 is top 19% (I read the wrong row), but still the sort of kid you’d expect to get 7+ at GCSE.

table N2b

I am guilty of extrapolating from what was obviously a high-attaining cohort locally.

Ah, sorry, I bow to Noble's wider knowledge of this one.

111 is 'above average' in SATs, but not 'very high'.

Looking at results from last year locally, it would have put her in the top half, but probably not in the top third, so wouldn't have put her in the top set of 3 - upper part of the middle set more likely.

For comparison, top 10% got 117+. Bearing in mind percentages for 8s and 9s, targets for GCSE won't be quite at that level either unless the school sets 'highly aspirational' targets.

Ok a SATs score of 111 would put her in the top 15% nationally so it would be an unusual school which would legitimately have her in the bottom set (e.g. selective). In my school which is high attaining and much bigger than yours, she’d probably be top set in a year half.

If there are a slew of unusual placements, it’s possible that someone has bodged a sort on an excel spreadsheet somewhere. It should have set off alarms when comparing SAT scores to set placement when doing a common sense check.

I think flagging it up is perfectly reasonable, as to me, a maths teacher, it does sound odd. Even schools that churn out inflated SATs scores aren’t normally that off.

I think you are over reacting. You don't know the other kids ability (even though you think you do), you are just assuming your dd is better than everyone else. The intake is 180 and you mention that there are 3 sets in her half of the year which means there are about 6 sets in total. First of all she is not in the bottom set, she is in the third set. She could be in the right set, considering you don't know all the other kids scores. 111 is good, but it's not a "very high ability" and I can guarantee you that a lot of kids got a higher score than that. You seem to think your dd is better than everyone else and she clearly thinks that too, otherwise she wouldn't be crying because she is not in the top group. Oh and with a score of 111 the school will not expect her to get 8 or 9 like you think.

Phone the school and ask to meet with head of maths or ask then to pass on an email. Give them a date that you expect to be contacted by and then contact the head of you don't get a response.

You need to ask the school for clarity in how often and on what basis they move between sets.

It would be HIGHLY unusual for schools to disallow any movement between sets - there's usually some shifting around either termly or half-termly.

I think you're right to say that the key thing is how fluid the sets are. If you dd is the only child able to answer questions in her set, the teacher will soon notice this and, in a decent school, would review her placement.

It is worth contacting the maths dept directly if possible. Firstly to feedback what dd says about the work being easy etc, but also to mention the effect it's having on her self-esteem.

If they reset again before Xmas, hopefully things will right themselves then.

But do focus only on your child's school history and ability, not that such and such's mum says that he struggles with maths and he's in a higher set as this will stop the school actually listening closely to your specific complaint.

Good luck!

People talk.