Selective grammar or private school?

Incidentally I second MarchingFrogs - your DDs score should see her comfortably into the grammar, given the previous year's score.

Meggy12 the request for £2500 as a non refundable deposit from a not particularly impressive indie is something which would ring big alarm bells to me. They must be desperate - and trying to tie people in. That's a huge deposit. DD4 was offered a place at a top indie for sixth form last year as we were considering moving and their deposit was only £500, which is bad enough. I bet you anything you like the indie will have spare places in March. Our local middling indie always 'manages to squeeze' DC in in March. You wouldn't think they possibly could from their glossy marketing bumph but they do! Don't be a mug! (unless you actively prefer the indie).

@Hoppinggreen, selective schools are obliged to do this - or at least, give enough information to allow parents to make an informed choice wrt expressing their preferences - in order to comply with the law (in the form of the Admissions Code). It's not something that the schools will have done out of the goodness of their heart. And the OP mentioned that their DD has a score, several points above the previous year's cut off. Unless there has been a massive hike in the number of candidate's sitting the exam this year, or something has happened locally which means that a large number of those with higher scores will no longer name a different school as a higher preference on their CAF, it does look like the score should be sufficient to secure a grammar school place.

I have a child at each (although the independent is very selective and the results are better than the grammar).

Some pros of the independent:
Longer holidays (they get really tired as both schools work them hard)
More extra curricular - both in terms of clubs and also days going off curriculum/visiting speakers/trips etc
More support- smaller classes, sixth form mentors etc
Extra languages
More flexibility over GCSE options

Some pros of the grammar:
Wider mix of children
More transparent grading system - easier to work out progress
Cheaper uniform
Less traditional, eg computing, product design etc are big - but not available at the independent
Use tech more eg homework app, behaviour points/merits available to see online etc
Shorter school day

To be honest though, some of these are specific to the schools in question. For us the independent is nearer but ds didn’t get in so we went for the grammar for him. Both are doing well and I’m happy with both schools. Dd has a bursary but I’m still secretly relieved we’re not paying anything for ds!

I know it doesn’t help you but a couple of years ago the 3 Grammars near us changed their system so you knew your Grammar score before you had to apply for the non selective schools, made it a lot easier.

she won't need to use public transport to get there

But can she, though (to/from either school)? Or will she be dependent on you to be able to pick her up from any after school activity she wants to take part in?

I am wondering whether the indie is playing on parents' insecurities by rushing through its selection procedure so early in the year and demanding an acceptance deposit now. Do a lot of people pay up, but then just forfeit the money by pulling out on March 1st when their DC get a grammar place after all (to be replaced with another £2500 from someone on their waiting list, or an opportunistic applicant, who wasn't 'successful' in the state system)?

Why not start st the Grammar and then review again in Year 8 for entry at Year 9 to the independent school if things aren't working out? Most independent schools have a year 9 entry point.

I still think it’s a no brainier if I am honest, if there’s a bus stop nearby.

Hmm, why would you want to choose a private school which is 3 x the distance , produces significantly worse results and pay £12k+ pa for the privilege? Seriously, you would need more money than sense not to choose the significantly better performing grammar which is a lot nearer and free!

I could agree more. It sounds like your daughter has done really well on the entrance tests. Paying for a significantly worse school when she has no additional needs seems like madness unless you’re under the impression that paying is automatically better which in this case sounds like it really isn’t. My kids are out 7.30 - 5, it’s totally fine

Hmm, why would you want to choose a private school which is 3 x the distance , produces significantly worse results and pay £12k+ pa for the privilege? Seriously, you would need more money than sense not to choose the significantly better performing grammar which is a lot nearer and free!

Usually, it’s more of a dilemma in that the private school is the best in the area by a mile but it’s a distance away plus paying school fees is a stretch!

I think that if I had the luxury of choice, I would still choose the grammar in your circumstances.

If you go to www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/index.php and ask in your area about her score, you should get some good advice.

Personally, I'd say 45 minutes journey was fine. Good luck!

Incidentally our grammar (superselective - catchment doesn't feature) has a lot of students doing 7.30am or earlier until 5pm or later and the vast majority seem fine. We're very close to the school but the bus takes a very circuitous rural route so they do 8am to 4.15pm despite being only a tiny bit over three miles away, so very little different. It's never been a problem - lots of kids actually enjoy the bus travel with friends.

Of course grammars cater for the artistic and creative!

Also, whether your DD is happy or not is unlikely to be determined by this sort of school choice, although I do think single sex for girls is capable of throwing up problems. Mine were/ are at a co-ed which I find far healthier - lots will disagree!

Is the indie place a 'mid year' one for now? Or is it an offer for year 7 next September? When do you have to confirm / reject this place? If it's a normal year 7 entry offer (just very early?) and you only have to confirm acceptance after the star national offer day, then there is nothing to stop you submitting your CAF naming the grammar school and any other state schools you would be happy with and your DD stands a good chance of being offered. Then just make the final decision on March 1st when you get your state offer.

One complicating factor, though, would be: if she didn't get an offer from the grammar school on March 1st, but was reasonably high on the waiting list (e.g. position 10 and in every year for several years back, that girl has got in at some point before September), would you choose state school offered and grammar hope, or accept indie place?

The bottom line is what school suits your DD. If paying is not an issue and the independent is a better fit then go for it. My DS goes to an all boys school and takes around 50mins to get to school. He is fine and copes, he does a lot of extra curricular which is mainly sport , rugby, football, golf but does chess too and he also has double bass lessons. He stays after school once a week for rugby training and playsor trains every Saturday. He loves it and the facilities are amazing however we pay 20k so I can’t comment on your choice or compare and me paying more doesn’t necessarily mean it’s better. I should add that my DD goes to a mixed independent and I wish we had sent her to an all girls school. The boys were an unhelpful dynamic she could have done without when she first started. Settled down now that she is in year 10

I agree with bubbles we are in Yorkshire and the fees are relatively low so DD’s School doesn’t attract the super rich. Mostly business people/Doctors/Accountants/teachers or similar

Also another reason we chose Private over Grammar was that DS is unlikely to get a Grammar place and we want them at the same school

Fees at £12,000 a year are very low in the independent sector. I’m not sure everyone would be posh. Some will be able to afford these fees on relatively standard incomes.

Dd had a Grammar offer and the offer of a 25% scholarship to a co -ed non selective Private school
We opted for the Private School for the following reasons
Proximity
Facilities
Class sizes
Overall size of school
More rounded curriculum
She preferred it
We aren’t super rich or posh or anything and Dd fits in at school just fine

Please don't let her decide as she may feel it's her responsibility for the family having no holidays etc if you pick the independent school. See them both again, go with your gut feeling. The journey is very important as it is a tiring day at secondary school. Look at what extra value the independent will add. Does it have some high achieving children and how are they supported? Ask lots of questions. Also remember that you can change schools at sixth form usually.

P.S. Well done to your DD though - it's a nice problem to have the choice!

If cost is an issue then its a no brainer - the grammar school wins.

If cost is not an issue its a completely different question. Just because a school has the luxury of being able to cream off the kids that scored the best in the entrance exam does not necessarily make it a better school. Those children will either be naturally bright OR have very motivated parents who are hugely invested in their kids education (i.e. willing to tutor and spend a great deal of time preparing them for tests). Obviously the exam results are going to be better at such a school but it doesn't necessarily mean that the school is better.

So bearing this in mind you need to look at what the "average" independent school is offering in addition to passing exams. Think about what your child enjoys in terms of extracurricular activities and how well they are catered for in comparison to the grammar.

Also think about what sort of environment will suit your child. Some bright kids are lazy and tend to "coast" if it takes very little effort to be at the top of the pack. Some don't like the pressure of being "the cleverest" and find it a burden. If your child is like this then they probably won't reach their potential in a school of more mixed abilities if they are going to be the cleverest one there. Other children are very self motivated and don't need the pressure of competition - they would prefer to be in all the top sets at a less selective school and thrive from the confidence it gives them.

Is there a highly selective independent school nearby? Perhaps this would give the best of all worlds?

Which school does your daughter want to go to? Where are her friends going ?
Will you drive her? Has she caught a bus on her own before?