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Original poster

Bright enough for super-selective grammar but prefer comp

34 replies

Mymadworld · 04/10/2018 19:25

DS is yr5 and we've started working together at home with a view to taking 11+ next September. It's school open evenings this week but so far of the 2 grammars we've seen, neither have wowed us that much so we're now wondering whether 11+ prep is worthwhile. Unfortunately the only other grammar option is the one I know very little about and doesn't hold open days until next summer.
Our eldest dc is at the comp (if you can call it that in a grammar area Hmm) and we've been really pleased with both his progress and the school as a whole but he's far less academic/motivated than his sibling and I can't shake the feeling that I'd be doing dc2 a disservice by not sending him to a grammar.
Any thoughts or experiences?

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tartanterror · 07/10/2018 19:21

Thanks!

Ta1kinpeace · 07/10/2018 10:00

Its a medium sized comp that achieves just above average with most of its kids, focuses on traditional subjects and does not make the kids do too many subjects Smile

Top line - cohort size and split between achievers shows comp
Percentage entering ebacc shows subject mix
Progress 8 scores are positive showing decent progress

tartanterror · 06/10/2018 22:20

Sorry to hijack this thread but can anyone help me to understand this set of results? I've got no idea and you all seem to understand it! Thanks!

Bright enough for super-selective grammar but prefer comp
Ta1kinpeace · 06/10/2018 13:50

It means that their results are comparable with any leafy comp like the ones here in much of Hampshire

CookieDoughKid · 06/10/2018 13:07

Those figures for your comp are very good indeed. I'd be happy to send my child there!

AChickenCalledKorma · 05/10/2018 22:24

The thing that jumps out to me from those figures are that a very high proportion of the students at the comp are high prior attainers. So it's not an area where all of them are being creamed off by the grammars and there's a good chance that the comp is used to catering for people that are "11+ material"

DieAntword · 05/10/2018 22:18

Generally grammar schools will have less money than non grammars and budgets are tight these days so I’m not surprised the comp has better facilities.

Original poster
Mymadworld · 05/10/2018 22:14

You're a gem @TeenTimesTwo I've never know how to read these league tables before thank you. As predicted the regular grammar has no low prior strainers and only a couple of middle but interestingly lower progress 8 score for high strainers ( 0.13).

I think my research here confirms my gut instinct so don't dismiss grammar yet but if he doesn't end up going to a SS (either by choice or by score) then send him with his sibling to the comp as results seem comparable and it's a much nicer environment with better facilities.!

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TeenTimesTwo · 05/10/2018 21:32

Your DC is ?grammar school, so you expect them to be a higher prior attainer.

Half the school you show are high attainers. This would have equated to level 5s in the old y6 SATs.
98% of these pass their English & Maths. Attainment 8 is 65.6 Progress 8 is 0.76.

You 'don't care' how well a comp does with low/middle achievers because you don't expect your DC to be one of them, so filtering on high achievers only helps you to compare better with grammars.

Though note that grammars might start with higher level higher achievers (e.g. over 115 in new SATs rather than just over 110s).

Original poster
Mymadworld · 05/10/2018 21:21

ETA thank you for your advice it's been fantastic

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Original poster
Mymadworld · 05/10/2018 21:20

@TeenTimesTwo I've found it but not entirely sure what it means Confused.

Bright enough for super-selective grammar but prefer comp
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Original poster
Mymadworld · 05/10/2018 20:45

@StealthPolarBear it probably does have a top set but dc1 isn't top set ability so it's not been in my radar until thinking about dc2. These are things I need to find out but it still doesn't take away the little voice saying bright child = grammar.

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TeenTimesTwo · 05/10/2018 20:14

e.g. For one of my local schools, a top performing comp in all-comp area:

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/136715/thornden-school

Scroll down until you find 'Results by pupil characteristics', click on Prior Attainment to expand and you can see attainment split

StealthPolarBear · 05/10/2018 20:12

Yes so where do the really bright kids who go to these primaries end up? The comp. So why doesn't it have a top set?

Original poster
Mymadworld · 05/10/2018 20:02

@TeenTimesTwo where would I find that?

@StealthPolarBear some of the the independents offer 11+ prep but none of the primaries I know will even discuss it let alone assist or encourage tuition. According to dc2 his (new & clearly not versed in the don't mention 11+ rule) teacher recently asked for a show of hands for those who have an 11+ tutor and dc2 reckons he's the only one without a tutor Grin - clearly not true but I'll best at least half will by now if dc1's class was anything to go by (24 out of 32 took it & 10 or 11 passed). The need to get your child into grammar school is quite astonishing around my way and there^^ plenty of children who would have gone private if they didn't get in so were fairly heavily tutored. To be fair, the comp is a faith school so if that isn't your bag then for some, grammar is the only local alternative or you risk being shipped off to another town to one of the less desirable schools.

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TeenTimesTwo · 05/10/2018 19:41

Those comp results look pretty good.
Can you filter them on just the higher prior attainers?

StealthPolarBear · 05/10/2018 19:38

Surely there are plenty of eery bright children in the secondary moderns? Those whose parents didn't help them get into grammar schools! Or are primary schools really good at getting the right children in?

Original poster
Mymadworld · 05/10/2018 19:31

Thanks all really helpful stuff. I've looked at the results but can only find league tables up to 2017 and they read as follows for progress 8 / attainment 8 / % maths & eng at c or above:

Comp: 0.51 / 56.7 / 79%
SS1 (disregarded): 0.66 / 71.7 / 100%
SS2: 0.58 / 74.9 / 99%
Regular grammar: 0.25 / 64.9 / 98%

Clearly the grammars perform better but then so they should as they have the brighter/brightest pupils - hard to know how the comp caters for its more able pupils so I'll need to do a bit more research in this area & whether they have 11+ stream (so might be worth taking it for that even if we decided against grammar). We are lucky to have such a good choice but it's tough to make the right choice when in reality I don't know much about his learning style as he's always been such an independent learner and never really had any need for in depth discussions with his school as his reports are all very positive.

We will definitely continue with 11+ and as suggested may well revisit schools in the summer or this time next year when it's a bit closer. DC quite enjoys the practise papers esp those ghastly NVR/VR that I have to peek at the answers before helping him so whilst he's still motivated and keen we will support and encourage 11+.

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AChickenCalledKorma · 05/10/2018 17:50

If your eldest dc is at the comp, surely you are in a very good position to find out how well the higher achievers do at that school. Do they offer "hard" subjects? What results did their top achievers get at GCSE and A-level last year? Do they have a thriving sixth form that people are keen to stay on for? Is there a culture of valuing achievement which the students respect, or are people teased for being brainy?

I can't offer experience of a grammar system, but DD1 is at a comp which has fairly non-descript headline results, but where the top achievers are right up there with the best results in the country. And she's found that there's quite a lot to be said for being a big fish in a small pond.

glintandglide · 05/10/2018 17:11

I agree it depends whether it’s a super selective or a regular grammar

dingit · 05/10/2018 17:09

My dd went to local academy then went to 6th form grammar. Worked well for her.

Taffeta · 05/10/2018 17:06

The big question is - which school can you see your son thriving at?

I have one DC at a SS and one at the local grammar. Neither are stuffed full of geeks. There are probably more geeks at the SS, but it’s also a very sporty school so a real mix of kids there.

TeenTimesTwo · 05/10/2018 17:00

do you mean 'super slective' (eg takes 2%) or standard 'grammar' (20%+).

how much of an impact do the grammars have on the other schools?

If only sduper-selective then the comp is more or less a comp.

If standard grammar then options at the comp may be reduced by them not having top set (and possibly second set too).

so e.g Does comp offer triple science / 2 MFLs?

What are results like for the high achievers at the comp? (don't compare headlines as comp will never compete on them)

mostlydrinkstea · 05/10/2018 16:31

Two of mine went to a super selective grammar. It was in a different league to the comprehensives where my others went in terms of expectations and the speed and depth at which they tackled subjects. There were geeks at the grammar but there were also artists, musicians and sporty types. The buildings were run down but the education they got suited them.

CookieDoughKid · 05/10/2018 16:22

If your comp is decent and gets good attainment 8 and progress 8 scores for its higher ability pupils then go to the comp if your ds would be happier. Grammar isn't for every child. I'd only reconsider if your comp was one that was dire or required improvements. I'd look carefully at the comp in a lot more detail to be sure.

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