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Original poster

Secondary discipline - what are our rights?

38 replies

manitz · 02/10/2018 19:29

Dd1 is y11 just got a detention for tomorrow but works after school so can’t go. I’ve emailed school to suggest a different evening and got no reply. May get something in morning.

She doesn’t generally get detentions so this is the first time it’s come up. How do schools generally view after school work? Do they recognise that it’s a commitment that outweighs their punishment?

We got the letter at 3 today and det is at 3 tomorrow. She won’t be attending detention as that is not enough notice to have time off work imo. Im happy for her to be punished another evening..,

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CaramelAngel · 03/10/2018 13:01

I thought about this with Y10 dd's volunteering with a Rainbow group as the Rainbow leader might find it inconvenient if she was expecting dd as an extra pair of hands that evening to help with activities. I thought I'd probably ask if it could be moved to another day (not specify when we wanted it) but then if they didn't confirm this was ok she'd probably just have to tell the Rainbow leader why she couldn't come.

FruitofAutumn · 03/10/2018 12:46

how is she going to cope when there are after school revision sessions later in the year?

Not all schools this- ours (grammar)certainly doesn't run any out of hours revision!

BarbarianMum · 02/10/2018 22:03

At our school they give you 24 hours notice of a detention. If the child doesnt do it on that day they get a days internal exclusion instead. There may be some flexibility for important medical appointments but that's it.

MrsChollySawcutt · 02/10/2018 21:57

TBH her being Y11 is worse- I also have a DD in Y11 and she is working really hard for her GCSEs. Right now she has pre-mock exams and is revising every night.

Working 3 evenings a week is going to severely impact your DDs GCSEs. I'm sure the school will take a very dim view of her working on school nights in Y11.

Original poster
manitz · 02/10/2018 20:34

Thanks I’ve just had a look at the link. She is only doing 2 hours so that’s fine. Just need to check the bylaws about permits and will ask work if they’ve sorted them out already.

I’m going to press her to drop the third night and will have a solid look at revision timetable to make sure she can go to everything she needs.

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HarveySchlumpfenburger · 02/10/2018 20:33

I think that’s a fair compromise, meditrina. It’s once you start letting pupils pick and choose a detention time that suits them that you end up on shaky ground.

Numbkinnuts · 02/10/2018 20:30

OP.

please check work permits. On school days during term time she can only work 2 hrs.

Not sure whether school will be sympathetic. In addition her employer may not covered by insurance if they are not complying with permits.

Secondary discipline - what are our rights?
Original poster
manitz · 02/10/2018 20:26

She is 15. The 11 year old only works one evening obvs Grin

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meditrina · 02/10/2018 20:25

Our school lets you change to the next scheduled detention time (I think they happen two days a week) as long as it is a parent who requests it in writing.

This is because they know that they do not know everything about a pupils home life and commitments, and does not seek to punish excessively or in a way which causes undue difficulty.This is what a good partnership with parents looks like.

(They always change if it's an A team player and there's an after school fixture, so it works both ways)

spanieleyes · 02/10/2018 20:24

Yr11, not 11yr!

Numbkinnuts · 02/10/2018 20:23

It's a yr 11 child so 15/16 in GCSE year.

Original poster
manitz · 02/10/2018 20:23

Mad vixen thank you. I’ll look at that tomorrow.

I am insisting she goes down to 2 evenings and also keeping an eye on her school work. She has mocks in November and is starting revision soon.

I had no idea about work permits but that will help my case. To be fair she has already acknowledged 3 evenings is too much but just didn’t want to rock the boat at work so just needs a push.

However she didn’t miss this homework because of lack of time, I think she just didn’t see it as important as she concentrated on her gcse coursework instead.

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MrsChollySawcutt · 02/10/2018 20:19

What kind of work is an 11 year old doing 3 eves per week after school? No way I'd be allowing my Y7 child to do that, he gets tired enough just doing school, homework and clubs!

MaisyPops · 02/10/2018 20:18

RafaIsTheKingOfClay
Oh yes. Another gove change.

Most will offer 24 hours notice for ease and courtesy (or a very clear outline of how to use same day e.g. one of my former schools had a policy of x y z =slt detention that afternoon. Well publicised. All students within walking distance)

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 02/10/2018 20:16

You’re right maisy. Thinking about it, it might be one of the things Gove fiddled with.

ChocolateWombat · 02/10/2018 20:14

I think I'd be insisitininsisinsists she reduces her evening work commitments ASAP and not waiting. It's good that there's a chance to do less. Even 2 evenings is a lot and reduces flexibility and time to do school work.

Many school have a policy that students should not work more than one evening and ideally only at weekends, with that just being one day. These are good policies and not intended to be bossy and draconian, but in recognition of the huge problems large outside school job commitments cause. It really isn't worth risking your grades for a few extra quid, but at the time,my students can struggle to see the bigger picture, so a policy, or clear guidance from parents on this, rather than letting them make their own choice, can be really helpful.

madvixen · 02/10/2018 20:12

If she doesn't have an employment permit then I'm doubtful that the school will provide any lenience.

There's quite a lot of rules around 15/16 year olds working, for example, they can only work 2 hours on a school night.
You might want to have a look at gov.uk and make sure her employer is doing everything by the book
www.gov.uk/child-employment/restrictions-on-child-employment

Original poster
manitz · 02/10/2018 20:12

Thanks chocolate wombat. I agree 3 evenings too much but she is super organised & will be trained at work in a skill that is likely to be of use to her future career so I value it almost as high as school tbh.

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MaisyPops · 02/10/2018 20:11

I agree with ChocolateWombat

Original poster
manitz · 02/10/2018 20:09

Hm I have no idea about a work permit??? Probably ought to look into that...

Tbh I’m over it now, was just very ranty earlier. She says she’ll talk to her teacher tomorrow. I think she’s on it.

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ChocolateWombat · 02/10/2018 20:08

I don't think it is up to you to say when it is convenient for her to attend the detention. Why should the teacher have to stay late after school on Friday, when DD has broken the rules and has other commitments? In this scenario, I think you should politely request an alternative time (not stating when it's handy for you) and also say that you won't do this again and that if she gets detention again you will be insisting she attends when it is set. There is no 'right' to do this, but it is possible to make a one off request, but really it does need to be a one-off with both school and her and you knowing you won't be doing it again.

I think you need to tell DD that if is happens again, you will be requiring her to go to the detention....she Will be in trouble at work for short notice cancellation, but that is a consequence of her being in trouble and she needs to know that will be the consequence and you won't protect her from the school detention or trouble at work. I'd also make clear that unless she sorts herself out at school she will have to give up the job. 3 days after school is too much to be honest .... It makes things at school and for homework very inflexible and only a super organised student is going to be able to cope with school and that level of work commitment. So I'd be saying you will step in for her this once, but not again and recognise yourself and for her, that although this job might have lots of benefits, it might just not be viable in this year of school for your DD and that the job cannot and should not take priority. It may well be that you will have to tell herbtonresign if she cannot reduce her hours or get her act together at school. Saying this and meaning it might be enough to get her to buck up her ideas, but if it isn't, then I really think the job should go.

And get beyond this 'what are our rights' thing. See school as the priority and that other things can only happen if they fit round it. Support the school who are trying to help your DD do her best. Supporting doesn't involve asking for alternative detentions more than once, or allowing activities social or work based which act as a hinderance.

And again,nthink carefully about the impact of 3 evenings working at this stage of school....the long term consequences could be pretty serious.

Original poster
manitz · 02/10/2018 20:06

Thanks for all your replies which are kind of what I suspected ie how can I just say I prefer one day over another? I do understand that but equally any worker has a duty to an employer. If they want to arrange it for next wed that would be fine as she could inform her employer.

Maisypops they revised the behaviour policy last year and it was a disaster because they had to run a det every evening & they were massive - the same punishment for forgetting a pen to swearing at a teacher. This year it has been revised again & im a bit wary. She did the big bit of homework but forgot the little bit.

I think lots of them forgot it and it’s happened a lot because they don’t think the little bit is important. So I’m a bit irritated about it but think she deserves the det. It’s a big school and dets are run every night - practically the whole school in attendance at every one last year - hoping this year will be a bit more sensible

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CherryPavlova · 02/10/2018 20:00

Has your child got a work permit? She’s meant to have and if you use work as a reason she can’t do a detention, they might have a view.

MaisyPops · 02/10/2018 19:56

They have to give you 24hrs notice in writing
Most schools choose to offer 24hour notice as a courtesy. It isn't a requirement. It doesn't have to be in writing.

Original poster
manitz · 02/10/2018 19:53

Teentimestwo that’s what I’ve said to her. I said she could go from one eve to 2 but she committed to 3. She’s promised me she’ll go down to 2 at half term. They’ve given us a time table for revision and it looks like some are repeated at lunch too. She works at a kids gym who have a lot of staff her age and she used to train there so I’m pretty sure they’ll respect gcse commitments after Xmas that’s why I want her to keep it.

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