Mixed ability or streamed for an able child?

Oh yes, good point. I meant "setting" not "streaming". Dont think any of the secondaries round here stream.

Do be aware too that schools with a narrower range of ability,much as Grammars, and some Comps don't do much setting either....they don't really need to, although if they are going to do it for anything,mint is usually maths.

Then they're missing a trick. Even amongst a top stream some children will be more able - and interested - in English composition than others. Similarly for the sciences, history, foreign languages, etc. I can understand prioritizing maths and not setting other subjects because of timetabling restrictions, but to assert that there is not a big diversity of ability in other subjects is lazy.

School A has intake of 180, School B has 240.

Overall size? That is tiny, do you mean that is the yr 7 intake?

The larger intake gives better economies of scale and allows more flexibility in setting by subject. A good head will manage size eg subdividing into Houses, each with their own lead and dedicated pastoral staff - you will probably get info on this at the open evening.

Streaming results in the same class for everything. You can be in a group behind you for one subject and ahead of you for another. If you don't gel with your class mates you are stuck with them. We all like to fondly assume they will naturally fall into the top stream but it doesn't always work like this.

Maths is commonly set from very early, English may be mixed or banded for much longer based on the cohort. Setting can start at different ages for different subjects based on how well setting works for that subject - one model doesn't fit every subject, including for the more academically able.

If you ask the schools how and when they set, they can explain this and how it works in their structure including how they review it ongoing etc You can also ask how they cater for the extremes at each end.

Streamed is far better for the most academically able. Ds1 was like a dog out of the traps when he got to (partially) streamed secondary and was taught at his own pace for the first time.

Definitely streamed if your child is academically able.

What are the respective sizes of the schools? (also interested in whether or not the new school is a free school).

I would prefer B, not just because of setting issues but a school so new there are no results yet raises concerns. I'm guessing that school A is an academy or free school as government legislation means that local authorities can't set up new schools - is it part of a chain? I recognise it's quite likely/possible that School B is also an academy, but at least results are some information to look at.

Mixed ability is very common because it is usually cheaper to offer and timetable, plus current evidence suggests that for most children it is as good or better than setting, and schools are interested in boosting overall results, not just those of the more able who benefit most from setting.

Be aware that any school may quickly alter its policy on this, plus, are you absolutely sure your DC would be in the top sets......people are sometimes surprised.

I'd agree that to do mixed ability teaching well (across a wide range of abilities) requires a lot of skill and a lot of planning and that most teachers either lack that skill level or don't have the amount if time to devote to planning that would be necessary, and given the teacher shortage problem, delivering mixed ability teaching across the full range (and this range will be wider in some schools) is going to become even more difficult.

When you go to open evening, don't just ask about setting, but about what is done for the more able. Sometimes there's just an odd token session or two during the year, and that really is about it. Look too at the proportions of low, middle and high entrants to the school to ge t a sense of if your DD will be more the norm or an outlier in each school.

Do be aware too that schools with a narrower range of ability,much as Grammars, and some Comps don't do much setting either....they don't really need to, although if they are going to do it for anything,mint is usually maths. And a a growing approach is to cream off a top set and teach everyone else mixed ability....fitting with the idea that mixed ability benefits most but not the top ability....here schools are trying to deliver best for all.

"How can very bright children be anything except bored and frustrated if they are held back to the pace of much slower pupils?"
That's not wht happens in good mixed ability teaching. Agreed that it might in crap mixed ability teaching though.

In my opinion working in classes based on ability is 100% better for very able children. Not so much for others.

I meant setting not streaming. Agree with TeensTimesTwo setting is the best way for everyone.

Streamed. How can very bright children be anything except bored and frustrated if they are held back to the pace of much slower pupils? And how can less bale children feel confident if there's always some knowall with their hand up or the majority of the class 'get' somehting and they are clueless but too embarassed to ask.
No contest.

OP.
People are asking do you mean streaming or setting.

Setting = each subject, or group of subject is sorted by ability, so you can be top set maths&science, bottom set English.

Streaming = sort by general ability, so you are either top, middle or bottom stream, which is less good for people with spikey profiles.

Some larger schools stream and then set within the streams.

Does the no setting/streaming school (except for maths) continue like this all the way up the school? I have a mid/low ability DC and I wouldn't be happy with this. If it is only in y7 and set after that then less of an issue.

Mixed ability may work better if it's done well.

My experience for a dyslexic child was that mixed ability English didn't help skills aquisition.

My dd has just started Y7. She had her form but this is different to her set. She is with the set for most subjects and she is loving it. She is academically able but instead of resting on her laurels she has the challenge of being with other academically able kids.
I was only set for Maths and English and it meant many classes were spent in boredom. I was also academically able.
Even better is that DD's school is big on encouraging sport and extra curricular activities too.

You do need to clarify if streaming or setting.
Streaming does not work well for a child that is patchy (i.e much stronger/weaker in some subjects than others).

My DC go to a school that is mixed ability apart from maths. We've not had any particular issues with them not being taught to the appopriate level. Also, the reality is that in KS4 (which starts in Y9 at their school) selection of GCSE options mean the classes are not full ability range (e.g. only the better scientists choose triple science, only those DC who are good at MFL choose a MFL ...). Plus as others have said, mixed ability works better for all apart from the top 3% or so.

Oops-said that twice-sorry!

You really need to find out whether it is streaming or setting.

There was a previous thread in this that got a bit heated but I think the overall view was that not setting works apart from for the most able children
The local comp we considered for DD doesn’t set and a couple of the teachers there ( and other teacher friends) advised us it wouldn’t suit her.

If streaming doesn’t work, why do they do it for maths? I would probably go for B.

Do you mean streamed or set?

Streaming deffo. My DD1 (highly intelligent) was expected to teach other kids in the (mixed ability) class. Held her back and drove her mad. Clever kids need more stimulation.