Controversial Behaviour Policy changes

flicka classrooms should always be calm learning environments and disruption should be dealt with. That isn't controversial at all.

Beyond that, a big school can get loud at break times and not all children will be able to cope with that. What you do with that knowledge as a parent is up to you - in the real world, everyone will have to deal with loud situations at times, but equally there are ways of helping children learn to deal with that as they grow older.

I am very anti-authority and don't see the point of school uniform etc but my daughter who is very anxious was at a school that was quite free and easy. It was very loud and unregulated place. She found it really intimidating and also couldn't learn because she doesn't have great concentration and the classes were constantly disrupted.

Now she is at a very strict church school and she has flourished. She loves the calm and the control and the very boundaried environment. Different ways suit different children. I think it would be nice if we could keep to a system where there was some choice.

The gazing out of the window thing reminds me of a conversation I had with ds teacher in year 3.

She told me she'd once made the mistake of pulling him up for stating out of the window and asked to to repeat what she's said.
She said he did just that, perfectly word for word and even added extra bits of factual information along the way that "he thought people might like to know".

She was laughing and said it reminded her that not all students learn the same and some students focus better without the eye contact and pressure social interaction.

I was cringing at the idea of my ds being a smart arsed know it all but teacher actually reminded me that he was just being how he is (he's autistic with spectacular echolalia and sponge like brain with ability to monologue!). She went on to add that it made her think about why he became so task avoidant and disruptive during writing times because he was clearly very able and so they'd done some tests. The result of this was him getting literacy support and various interventions.

The point of this story is to show that in a draconian environment my ds wouldn't survive. (He became suicidal in his first secondary due to poor practice). And also by not automatically assuming a child staring in a different direction or being disruptive at certain times is deliberately flouting rules you may discover more about them or may even discover they are learning, or may need help.

My son is now in a high standards but totally non draconian secondary with an EHCP. Their pastoral care is amazing, results second best in whole area and who's ethos is what makes the school great rather than leading with an iron rod.
He has a fantastic HOY who is open and honest and at times we've had different view points and we've managed to discuss them effectively and in some occasions he's then got I'm saying ds can't due to disability and other times I've realised I'm still overprotective of ds due to his disability.

There is absolutely no way my ds with asd and CP who has absences would ever survive in this environment - not would this environment prepare him for adulthood.
He would however and does thrive in an environment where a school effectively deals with disruption and bullying without resorting to scaring the crap out of the pupils and making them too scared to relax within the school walls.

Why would any sane adult discuss punishing children for not having a tie done up to the right degree of tightness?

That's literally insane.

Hooray for clip on ties!

I do agree with the point about consistency of sanctions. DS's school has daily uniform checks during form period, and detention will be given to any pupil who breaches the uniform policy regardless of who they are. The same punishment will quote rightly be applied whether it's a diligent student whose tie isn't done up tightly enough or a badly behaved one who's wearing trainers.

youarenotkiddingme this might have been my DDs if our school were different. They both have really high ability in several subjects and yes, did always finish their work early. Teachers have always responded to this by having extension work ready for them or by having them support other students with their work if appropriate at the time.

They have both been peer mentors and DD2 is a prefect - hard work and excellence is rewarded at our school. And yes to being consistent in implementing a policy - 'being on the radar' is a lazy excuse for picking on someone who is easily identifiable.

My friends DD went to an academy with strict rules. She agreed to rules but disagreed with how they weren't applied fairly.

She questioned the school on why a teacher did uniform spot checks and walked past loads of students with rolled up blazer sleeves but singled out her DD for punishment.

School actually replied is because her DD is a louder student so "on their radar".

When friend questioned if her DD was being disruptive etc the consensus was no but she's finish work quickly and want to chat which did disrupt other students.

My friend was fully supportive of school punishing for uniform infringement and fully supportive of her dd not disturbing others (and asked about extension work or a book to read etc).

But it fell on deaf ears. It seemed the school wanted to created a kid of clones (we joked a replica of the demon headmaster!) and would actively try and break down the characters with a zero tolerance policy whilst also ignoring others and not having zero tolerance.

My friend agreed they needed to improve behaviour and low level disruption but not that her DD should just sit up straight in silence and not give we contact to her peers because she was clever and finished work quickly. Her DD MH declined dramatically and she moved schools.

She's never so much as had a teacher make one comment to her about behaviour or uniform. And this school achieves might higher than the other school.
Other school has outstanding ofsted - this one has a good.

There is no good having draconian rules that don't reflect reality - we are setting the Holden up to fail this way. They do need to learn respect and following rules and there's consequences for not doing so. But they also need to find a way to be themselves and how to fit themselves into a box without losing who they are.

I don't agree with zero tolerance rules that are set up for the sake of it and have no learning attached to them. I do agree with teachers needing students who disrupt lessons to be removed.

Exactly Starlight345.
Scandinavian, German, French ,Greek and other EU schools often produce charming, multi lingual, confident and well educated children without having to resort to these techniques.

It's a sad inditement of english schools. In fact many of the issues posted on these education threads are.

And I do know there are thousands of excellent and committed teachers working in the system despite it all. Really.

Actually this thread makes me feel very sad they are still children . God help their mh. My Ds has Adhd and sensory processing issues so would be kicked out in a week if he lasted that long.

It is very worrying schools are allowed to treat children this way . Prisoners have rioted for less.

noble PE? meh.
That is nothing.
It was a bit blustery this week and the concept of rain was mind blowing to 14 year olds who felt the need to inform me that water was indeed falling from the sky.
Blinds also were closed after I overheard a conversation debating if it gets too windy will they close the school?.

Adults belting and caning little children was regarded as 'normal' in this country, until it successful cases were brought via ECHR.

Article here on successful use of ECHR wrt to school detentions:

Freya Macdonald launched legal action against Moray council, claiming that her punishments were in contravention of Article 5 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), which states it is illegal to detain children in an educational establishment against their will without a court order. Her lawyers have also cited Article 2 of the ECHR, which ensures the right of every child to an education, and Article 3, which protects children from degrading treatment

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/classrooms-ban-detention-after-pupil-cites-human-rights-138178.html

noble that is the sort of sensible behaviour I'd expect in a good school.

I close the blinds in my classroom because kids do PE directly outside and it’s way too distracting.

I just think being told I'd be in detention for a glance out of the window would render me so anxious and twitchy that I'd probably concentrate on SLANT more than the actual lesson.

mistigri I did see those posts. Contrast this with our own very effective and caring head teacher, who came to our house during the summer holidays with cards and a small gift for my DDs because their father died during the summer holidays... It's worlds apart and it just shows that treating children like potential delinquents all the time isn't the only way.

To me their posts read like some deeply dodgy disciplinarian fantasy. I think not engaging is the best strategy

Same person was posting on another thread that 16 year olds should be doing 4 hours homework every night and 8 hours a day at weekends. Definitely in crank territory. Hope s/he is not really a head teacher.

OP, have you investigated whether a place might be available at another school or just assumed everywhere is oversubscribed? It sounds like a horrendous environment for anxious or people pleasing teenagers. My teenage DS wouldn't last long there (well-behaved, bright, neurotypical student but anxious with some OCD traits).

Children need to be allowed to move around during breaks. They need to have the time and space for normal social interaction at school. In lessons they should absolutely be concentrating - but the odd look out of a window is really not a flogging offence in the way you seem to think it is. Persistent low level disruption needs to be dealt with, but doing so does not require the kind of regime described by the OP - the school my children attend is evidence of that. It isn't a nice school with an exclusively middle class catchment, it's very mixed - but somehow it manages. This kind of regime is lazy because it treats all children as bad before they have even done anything. Normal human behaviour is punished. It's pathetic. I am so, so, so glad you are not the head at my school. You really shouldn't be in charge of anyone's education if you hate children this much.

I would have thought arguing it from the fact that a school has a duty of care would be the place to start TBH.

@pointythings

I'm a headteacher actually. Can you explain why children need to move, speak or look out of the window when they should be concentrating on their work?

Milky if a parent did the stuff at home that this school is doing in the classroom (sit still, don't speak, don't smile, don't look out of the window) that would most certainly be classed as abuse and social services would be very interested.

There is a huge gulf between total anarchy at school and the kind of regime the OP is posting about. 'Children doing as they are told' in a normal school sits neatly in between the two. I do hope you are not a teacher.

I can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. The ECHR aims to prevent abuses of human rights such as torture, abuse and ensure freedom of expression.

It's certainly not concerned with children having to do as they're told at school.

ECHR links and advice on taking action, for info.

Even without any litigation, it might be worth reminding schools enforcing unfair treatment on our kids, of our children's ECHR rights.

ttps://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/what-european-convention-human-righ
www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-legal-action/inquiries-and-investigations/legal-aid-victims-discrimination-our-inquiry