A-Level Economics - any views?

But this wouldn’t put you off Maths (ignore the rubbish).

The top grades are not easy but many who take MFL are not native speakers. If your DS is good at French, why dismiss it because of what others do? Some children are the offspring of Cambridge mathematicians but thstveoukdnt our uou off Maths if they turned out to have an advantage. The native speakers do have an advantage but he probably wouldn’t need an A to get into any competitive university. Most offers are A for MFL. There are plenty of courses to go round! They wouldn’t get people on the courses if universities asked for A in a MFL.

I do believe adding a MFL gives you an edge but French and Spanish are popular. The reason I specifically mentioned MFL to the op is because it is German and the A level numbers have gone downhill sharply.

My DD did MFLs from 11/12 up to degree. The vast majority on the degree were not native speakers but a few were. However on her second language, loads were ab initio. In the world of employment, doing a degree in a subject you are partially already good at isn’t seen as particularly great. You haven’t extended yourself much. Doing it from scratch is far more impressive. Ditto the A level. If he enjoys French and is willing to get down to the hard yards with the vocabulary, I think he should do it. It does open more doors at university.

@BubblesBuddy is it the case that it is easier to get into a French degree course as well. I have been told to discourage Ds from doing French A level because it is very hard for a non native speaker to get a top grade as so many native speakers take it as a easier option.

Doing Maths will open a lot more doors than Economics, even if the final goal is a Social Science degree. If it is just a case of picking an A level with the best chance of getting an A I'm not convinced Economics without any other Maths / Science interest would be it.

I remember the politics pitch to DD that mentioned debating - little time to do it in reality!

Hi op; I teach economics. I’d agree with all the posters; A level Maths for Economic degrees not needed for A level Eco. I pitch my subject as marmite to the students; if he’s interested in the news/current affairs/ likes debating and thinking about world issues it’s amazing; if not then not so much so.

Hi, I don't often post but wanted to share my story regarding A'level Economics, albeit it was a while ago! In 1986 when I did my o'levels I got a D in maths ( I planned to do a reset in the November) I started 6th form college in the September and 'fancied' doing Economics A level (I didn't have an o'level in it as my school did not offer it) the Economics lecturer asked me my maths o'level grade, saying a D, he took a breath and said he wasn't sure I would cope. I told him I really wanted to do it, and he let me. First I had to resist my maths (I got a c) then I sat o' level Economics and got an A. In my Economics A'level mock I got a C. In my actual A'level exam I came out with an A. It really annoys me when schools/colleges the Govt or whoever stops pupils from sitting exams - you just never know.... but at least have the chance.

DS did Maths, Further maths, economics, theology and politics at a'level (getting A*'s and A's, can't remember which subject for whic Intending to read PPE. He loathed Economics a'level, so much so that he ditched PPE because the idea of three more years of economics was not an option.

Is there a careers advisor who can assist him?

I would be a bit more radical and suggest he does History and German at university. Universities are crying out for students in German and this combination will help him get in for History. The universities want to fill their MFL courses. There is far less competition. The fourth subject won’t really matter. The huge advantage of this combination is the opportunity to study abroad in Y3 and you stand a very good chance of being accepted at a good university.

If he’s lazy, forget PPE. It just won’t happen without Maths. History and German is the way to go and I assume German is a known subject, unlike Economics.

My nephew is doing economics at Nottingham uni and he didn't do A level maths. He had offers from Exeter, Manchester, Leeds and Cardiff (think it was Cardiff)

He's second year and very happy. He says it's a very interesting subject.

Fair enough if he is absolutely dead set on History. The thing is, so many 16 year olds change their minds, and let's face it, it's hard to know you'd want to do Economics at Uni before you've even started to study it at A Level. In the past, before schools and colleges got very tight on warning students about the need for maths for most Econ degrees, there were always aces students each year who did Econ without Maths - it was often their 4th subject in the days of AS and A2...then they found they loved it and wanted to carry it onto uni, but were frustrated by the lack of choices open to them due to their lack of maths. That's why schools push the info now, as do thevRussel Group in their Informed Choices booklet where they point out which subjects have specific - Level entry requirements in many Unis - Economics often needing Maths is mentioned there.

Often the rather lazy boy who hasn't worked hard at school before, finds he is really grabbed by Economics - it seems real and I terestig and exciting, and even if it was never in the radar for further study before A Levels (and let's face it, most have nothing on their radar,mor if they do, it's only very loosely there or can change pretty easily) they suddenly find they want to carry it on. And yes, there will be places you can do it....but Op sounds like she might have aspirations for top notch Unis, and most will be closed to him without maths.

But even if he did have a change of heart - there are still options.

My own DS was okay at Maths. British Maths Challenge. Maths Olympiads, these are the things that mathsy kids do. They get A at GCSE and they get A at maths A level (early usually if properly mathsy kids)

The only question at maths A level is how good their A is. That is a question that Cambridge asked. To get an A at maths A level you need to get over 80%. To get interviewed for Cambridge you need to get over 95% at maths A level. The interviews being for maths, natural sciences or economics.

This is not a gifted child at maths. The facts speak for themselves. This may very well be a gifted child at history. Do the history. Ditch the maths.

True.

Hey you lot

The OP's DS is not wanting to apply to university to read economics. There's a possibility of PPE but maybe that's not serious. The main thing is that the OP's DS wants to read history

And AFAIK no-one ever needed a maths A level to read history

Oh, of course, it'll keep more options open. But if he hates it/doesn't want to do, not all doors close either.

Leeds, Reading and Sheffield don't demand it either, so far.

I loved economics a level and am not the strongest at maths. I became more keen on maths through it, as it began to have an interesting purpose. I'd say definitely do it and having economics helps later as it's viewed as being mathematical.

The thing is, if you have A Level maths, you can apply to all places to do Economics. Regardless of the situation a number of years ago,mod whether the maths in an Economics degree is manageable without A Level maths, the A Level in maths IS an entry requirement for the vast majority of Economics degrees at good universities....not having it would limit his choices. That doesn't mean there will be nowhere he can go to do Economics, but lots of doors will be closed. Schools and colleges tend to make this very clear to people making their choices these days, even if they didn't in the past. I have looked at the websites of all our local schools and colleges and in all of their A Level Options booklets, they make clear that Maths A Level is required at most universities for degree level Economics - every single school or college points this out - it is for a good reason, to ensure doors are kept open.

Our University also provided a Stats course - I did Maths with Mechanics for A level, there was no stats option at our school, that can’t be unusual?

SOAS doesn't need maths A level (just randomly googling now).

www.soas.ac.uk/economics/programmes/baeconand/

Depends on the universities economics courses. Manchester offers BA and BSc economics. The BA doesn't need maths.

www.manchester.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/2018/05134/baecon-economics/entry-requirements/#course-profile

Also, the OU offer PPE (I know he doesn't want to do OU, just another example). I did all the economics courses for that qualification and it was perfectly doable without A level maths.

I'm another person with A levels in Maths and Economics and read Economics at university.

I remember lots of Statistics and Calculus being the mathematical part of my degree and there's no calculus in GCSE maths these days.

I did a degree in Econmics quite a few years ago - I had done A level Maths but many had not and the University ran an extra course to help them. To be honest the only bit of A level Maths I remember needing was calculus and with Futher Maths he will have already have been introduced to the basics and school taught it so much better, imo, so the kids who had never encountered calculus really struggled with the concept. I’d love to go back now and study Behavioural Economics - I find it completely fascinating.

Doing A Level maths isn't necessary to do A Level Economics, but for the vast majority of Economics courses at good universities, A Level maths, rather than A Level economics is the requirement. In the academic school where I work, with over 40 students doing A Level Economics, only 1 is not doing A Level maths too.

A Level maths is a facilitating subject for many degrees, whilst Economics is a highly regarded subject bit not a facilitator or necessary subject at A Level for any degree.

Unless someone knows for certain that they won't want to continue Economics at uni, studying it without Maths these days, really is something which limits options.

Regarding your son being told he can't do maths - well, perhaps his school is one which places a lot of value on the teacher judgement as well as the GCSE grade - lots of GRammars and Independents do this. They might say an A student isn't suitable for A Level maths because the maths teachers know he was a lazy pain in the backside for several years. They might know that he was never A material and the a* was a total fluke and he really will struggle at A Level. They might be a school which never throws students out, but is only willing to offer certain subjects - and those who are lower performers generally in the schools view or who have been deemed not acceptable by other departments are channellers into new subjects not studied at GCSE where the Deprtment isn't able to reject people becaue they haven't taught them already. Who knows....we don't know your son, but he might be being offered Economics instead for any of these reasons or different ones entirely. I would say though, if he has been lazy and hasn't worked hard and is still of this mind set, Economics will be very hard for him to do well in.....as will all subjects in honesty. As an essay subject and one based on current affairs much of the time, to do well you need to keep abreast of what is going on and to engage in lots of developed essay writing. Most of the marks will come from pretty lengthy, evaluative essays and lots of reading will be needed.

I would go back to the school and discuss this issue of Economics without Maths. It might be that due to his results or the schools judgement of his ability or behaviour, he has very limited choices and Economics is option still but only without maths. Fine, as long as goes into it well aware that the opportunity to continue Economics at a top uni is extremely limited.

Regardless, he needs to be aware that these limits to his range of choices are partly the result of his poor attitude to work lower down the school - he needs to see that already there are very tangible consequences of this for him, and that if he continues like this, there will be more consequences.

Of course, many places would snap him up for Maths with an A*. I guess as a parent, you know really if the school is being accurate in their judgement if his ability and behaviour, or it is over harsh and you should push hard for him to do maths or go elsewhere to study it.

Best of luck in finding an appropriate A level course of study,