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The DfE needs to stop the farce of compulsory Maths and English GCSE resits

645 replies

noblegiraffe · 24/08/2018 11:37

Another year, another 124,560 students failing their GCSE maths resit and 99672 students failing their GCSE English resit.

Colleges have been saying for years that this government policy is a failure, that students are entered into cycle of resits and failures that does nothing to boost their confidence or enhance their qualifications.

If you get a 3 in maths or English GCSE you have to resit GCSE. If you get a 2 or below, you can take other qualifications like functional maths instead.

The government argues that GCSE is the key to opening doors and as many students as possible should be resitting to get that opportunity. But wouldn’t a qualification that they are actually likely to pass be better?

The resit pass rate for English dropped from 35.5% to 33.1% this year and for maths dropped from 37% to 22.7%. This is not an improving picture!

www.tes.com/news/gcse-results-english-and-maths-pass-rates-drops

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RomanyRoots · 31/08/2018 19:21

sorry noble
Mouth is zipped.
Please let's talk about how to get schools to scrap resits for those that won't pass.
Thank you for starting these threads, I guess we all get carried away and wander off. I can see where some of the kids get it from now. Thanks

RomanyRoots · 31/08/2018 19:18

Piggy

Are you near Yarmouth? We used to live near Bungay in Suffolk, a long time ago now Grin
Our eldest two were born down there so going back 20 odd years now. Grin
Is your nn from Lord of the flies? It's one of the books that got my dd into reading and she came top of the class for some work she did on another book. But she is so patchy and will get between 25/30% in end of year tests.

noblegiraffe · 31/08/2018 18:59

Don’t worry about Great Yarmouth, Piggy, that guy Barry from Michaela has sorted it all out.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 31/08/2018 18:57

The threads about private schools, London schools, grammars, university etc aren’t relevant to me either, so I start threads about things which interest me. Like whether compulsory GCSE resits should be binned. But here we are, a thread full of Hull.

OP posts:
RomanyRoots · 31/08/2018 18:57

User

I can sympathise, honestly.
we have been extremely lucky with one of our dc, in the fact that she will have a chance to excel in something.
However, I was being honest when I said the academic education will be no better than an average state school. It's the music education parents pay for.
The smaller classes are an advantage and of course little disruption, but it does exist, just in a different way.
They usually get really good results as there are some academically gifted and bright children, it seems to go with the musical talent in many cases.
Please don't think that everyone is better off than yourselves, I know this isn't easy on Mnet, sometimes it seems like a parallel universe to me as well.
I think it's wonderful what they have done to Hull and I hope it continues to build and thrive.
We have a similar thing here with 2 towns 8 miles apart, in the same borough. One gets all the money and investment, the other is still cobbled streets, high unemployment, degeneration, doom and gloom. It really isn't fair, even down to the sponsorship and investment in rugby League, my families favourite sport Grin

RomanyRoots · 31/08/2018 18:46

Maisy

Thank you so much for the offer, but I really don't know atm, she's going into Y10 and hasn't been given any targets as yet.
I'm not sure that they do, I just asked her if she has ever heard it mentioned as she works with Y11- 13 and she hasn't.

I just got shouted at tbh, she reckoned that she was aiming for a 9 in core subjects. I told her to be realistic as we were looking at her available time for study and extra study iyswim.
I'm helping as organisation isn't her strong point and whilst she gets help with this at school I just wanted to get her thinking and on the right wave length.
Apparently, i'm saying she's rubbish at Maths, and a failure.
It goes to show that we need to be so careful what we say and how we do this. Anybody who knows me knows the complete opposite and i'll campaign for the lower achievers, always have.
i just didn't want her to put in all her time and effort at something she won't excel in and so she wasn't too disappointed when she finds out she won't get a 9.
There are 3 foundation Maths students so she said they were all doing the higher paper. Not sure I believe this as the groups are set.
Only 30 in the year so 2 groups I think, there has been until now anyway.

AlexanderHamilton · 31/08/2018 18:41

I live in a city that was traditionally reliant on two industries. One was mining, the other we used to be famous for but it’s all gone over to the Far East now.

We are sandwiched between two major cultural cities & if you are able to travel there that’s great.

All our schools are Academies now. Some are good schools, some pretty awful. It all depends which catchment you are in. We have a thriving local amateur drama scene but for actual training you have to pay. There are loads of dance schools & music teachers. But in schools it’s all about the league tables so kids are encouraged to give these activities up in favour of extra revision/booster classes.

Piggywaspushed · 31/08/2018 18:38

I have been to Hull quite a few times. I know it has its issues but would wager it has far more culture and opportunity (and funding , at present) than Great Yarmouth.

Piggywaspushed · 31/08/2018 18:36

Bless you, I think you are the only non - teaching poster left on MN who thinks teachers are highly educated Grin

user1471450935 · 31/08/2018 18:35

AlexanderHamilton
I don't know where you live, but my local city is Hull (Kingston upon)
Believe me it's nowt to right home about. 45 years of decline after loss of cod wars.
City of Culture was a way to rebuild, we finally feel we have something to look forward to.
Only in last 5 years we topped the rough traveller guides list of cities to avoid in the world.
Also Lord Hesiltine want to abandon the city and never replace in the late 1980's.

user1471450935 · 31/08/2018 18:30

Piggywaspushed
I never go on university threads. I been totally shredded by the public school brigade. Think only 4 threads that are truly relevant to my families education experience on mumsnet.
One about Lord Adonis and shit schools started by noble.
One about shitty grades and going to university.
One about using the local Ofsted rate 4 school and
this one.
The rest are just full off highly educated teachers, parents of high achievers and parents of private schools and grammars.
Luckily where we live every one uses the local comprehensive.

MaisyPops · 31/08/2018 18:18

AlexanderHamilton
Sure thing. I'll PM you.

AlexanderHamilton · 31/08/2018 18:17

How wonderful it must be to live somewhere with all those opportunities.

user1471450935 · 31/08/2018 18:15

Also don't forget we have just had City of Culture.
Plus we have the freedom festival to celebrate William Wilberforce, annually. We had Kofi Annan speak last year, and visit local schools.
There is also a branch of the Northern Performing Arts School in the city and numerous dance groups.
We also have 2 theatres in the city and one in Beverley too.
Plus free art galleries and museums.
Hull Cc and ERYC hold annual children's literature festivals, where all local primaries attend, and meet authors and artists.
You don't need to go private. Just need nerves of steel.

user1471450935 · 31/08/2018 18:06

Romanyroots
Well done you, I did level 2 English and Maths, whilst Ds1 was doing A levels, we couldn't help him in anything.
If you have time look up Archbishop Sentamu academy in Hull.
It is a newish comprehensive, 1400 students in and out of SM's. But it is working with the Godber's, John and his partner Jane Thornton, to take Drama students and the like to the world.
They took a group to Barcelona last year, two students now have places at the renown School of Arts?

Like our school, it looks for ways of giving kids an escape.
The RSC scheme, is for any school. They are lovely.
Our school also builds electric/wind powered solar cars and with Land Rover annually rebuilds scrap Land rovers and sells them to fund the next one.

AlexanderHamilton · 31/08/2018 17:59

I totally understand Romany. If a child comes from a family that can afford private music or dance lessons (£15-25 per week is about the norm here for music lessons) & there are things like county orchestras, drama workshops, dance associate schemes available then really there is no need to go to vocational school.

In dance up til age 11 you can get away with 1 or two ballet classes a week - Dd had ballet tap & modern £6 per week each but one of her classmates had never danced before, she just did a workshop in her primary school where her potential was spotted.

But from the age of 12 onwards itvwouid have cost a fortune to pay what was needed to become serious never mind that most stuff involved travelling a long distance.

AlexanderHamilton · 31/08/2018 17:51

Can I join our little English Lang help group.

Ds’s target based on CATS is Grade 6.

I don’t know what his current working level is but I’ve had 4 reports this academic year. (9) In October he was assessed as on track for a Grade 1 & in December, February & June as on track for Grade 2.

They didn’t do end of year exams as they hadn’t covered enough.

MaisyPops · 31/08/2018 17:37

@RomanyRoots
PM me what your child's current working level is, target is and I'll send you some advice and tips if you want.

RomanyRoots · 31/08/2018 17:28

Now, if anybody has any idea how I can gauge what support to give for Eng lang I will be eternally grateful.
There are no targets as yet, not even sure if she will be given any and have no idea what level she is currently, would guess at a level 2/3

RomanyRoots · 31/08/2018 17:25

user this has to be the longest last post ever Grin

It sounds like your dc have the same opportunities that mine has at specialist school, wow you are lucky.
Living in a deprived area we had nothing like you have. It's good to see that some areas are well supported in the Arts.
We had lots of freebies offered so I can't complain, but these came from friends and family/ community and private individuals not so much from our LA
I too have a degree but left school with nothing at all. In those days we didn't have functional skills you were just "thick"
I worked in industry until Thatcher closed it all, and went to uni way into my thirties after a career that surprisingly enough didn't need Maths.
So, you see you aren't on your own, life isn't fair, and we don't all get the same chances.
Our eldest grown up son, used to come home and teach himself with help from us. his teachers would have loved to have done their jobs but were too busy firefighting and finding a way out of the store room.
The school was unbelievably bad, but we didn't moan we became active in his education like many other parents.

Piggywaspushed · 31/08/2018 16:33

You should read Cleverlands : you'd like it!

Piggywaspushed · 31/08/2018 16:29

Tbh user I'll consider myself lucky if mine even gets near Lincoln. There honestly are buried posts by people despairing at options for thir average/ disaffected etc DCs. It is true they get crowded out but they are there. Lincoln is going up massively in the league tables and is becoming very popular. Just don't go and ask about criminology on MN or you get the Oxbridge law types piling in!!

user1471450935 · 31/08/2018 16:08

Answering as I catch up.
Thank you piggywaspushed, Ds1 is looking forward to going in to Lincoln in 16 days. Only doing Criminology and it unconditional. I have learnt on here that Lincoln is a second rate university, from some who are on this thread posting about assisting low achievers, and Criminology is a joke degree, not worth having like true degrees.
In fact I think apart from me I only have heard Lincoln mentioned by 4 other posters ever.
I give up, I am a low achiever who is married to an average achiever, who has fought to get his kids further then their parents ever did, with no education background to get them there.
Mumsnet is both depressing and very unsupportive to people like me and our family.
I notice how every one congratulates kids for getting into a posh music school, but only you mine for getting to university. Think it says it all really.

user1471450935 · 31/08/2018 15:51

Ok.
As a parent who unlike most on here who have degrees, some it would appear from lurking on university threads went to Oxbridge or certainly could have, I don't, I went to work at 13 to help pay family bills, spent 5 years in bottom sets and left school with one true O level, got 3 equivalents at night school, and went to BBCA, to get level 2/3 qualifications and my wife has 5 Gcses.
You lot seem to live in a different world, my average DS1 got more Gcse's on leaving school, 7 then my wife and I did 6.
We have just struggled to get him through sixth form, doing the harder A levels, which we couldn't even understand. 50% of his history group got a U for their course work, because the school didn't have the resources to get them a pass, school marked all at C.
Both have been in lower sets,
It impossible to move sets after year8, WHY?
Because the lower sets work on Foundation levels every one else on Higher, Top set English do a completely different exam board to lower sets, Science do triple in top set, lowers only do double, History and Geography do different study fields.
So basically if your not in set 1 or possible 2 you can only ever get C/B or 4/5. That's the reality in most local schools it the way the get up to 60 to 70% pass rates.
The local Tory MP always says it's ok to cut funding for arts in state school, because there is the MDS or you can get a bursary. Yeah.
For the ones who wonder, our school has a choir and sings in events all around the region, lots of charity and singing in local care homes. The drama dept, annually works with the RSC to put on a Shakespeare play, with years 7 to 12, 8 other low ranking comps and primaries are involved, alternative years it's in Hull Truck Theatre. They get members of the RSC and Hull Truck into the school to help the students and teachers produce their own unique versions of a play. They also get to do days in the theatre working with current productions. The parents buy £5 tickets to help cover costume costs.
The school has since 2010 had 4 girls go to study opera all over Europe, 2 girls off to study piano, one in Holland which we all help raise £10000 for her living costs, plus a education trust I was a trustee for gave her £3000 for year one and will give £1000/year whilst she continues to study. The school holds art exhibitions of year 11 and 13 every summer and sells off pictures to help fund the courses and send the kids off to university. Then textile students hold fashion shows twice a year, sponsored by local companies. Two of this years A level kids are off to London and Milan to do Degrees.
None of these kids come from university families or would ever got anywhere near a MDS school.

Answering Cakes question
I would do like Canada and scrap GCSE's and make sure ever child got a basic education up to 17 and you leave with a certificate saying you are work ready. For the ones who want to do FE and University you then join at 17 and specialise. No one is classed as failures and the country even pays for students to go to university. Well the state of Ontario does anyway. Plus different degrees cost different amounts.
Never will happen, Britain even today is locked into a class system, which manifests itself in the education system, so 35% have to be deem failures, don't forget if Gove and Co had had their way it would have been 45-50%, because originally only 9-5 was a pass. You are only deemed gone enough if you attend a RG university, and state education is always underfunded under Tory governments. Has Mrs Thatcher told her cabinet, state schools aren't for the likes off our children, not even Grammars.
State schools, especially ones like ours and its neighbours are only designed for the plebs of this world, you know the ones who will work in minimum wage jobs, become hairdressers, nurses, firefighters and in Mr Andrew Mitchell's infamous rant police officers.

RomanyRoots · 31/08/2018 15:10

Isent

It's a terrible situation to be in and as you say a harsh lesson.
Even if they are good at other things, the subjects where they aren't stand out like a sore thumb anyway.
I know we can't all be good at everything but we do need to prepare our kids for this.

I'm trying to get mine to see what I've titled learning tips and philosophy
basically I listed the usual tips for learning and added a activity of placing her subjects in order of importance for additional study.
So subject, score of 1-7 of ability, then order of importance.

I can guarantee that Maths, Science and English Lang will be the first in the importance, but I would argue that the subjects in the middle are more important as these could be brought up to a higher level.
Whereas subjects where a 4/5 is likely, she could work forever and not gain a 6/7.
It will be interesting how she sees it all.
She has her timetable on the school stream now and she has head of Science this year so she's very happy as she likes this teacher and they are very supportive.

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