The DfE needs to stop the farce of compulsory Maths and English GCSE resits

cakes, in science (my subject) we have combined science and separate sciences. It is a two tier system as the latter requires more detailed understanding of the concepts. But GCSE in combined sciences isn't a certificate in failure by any stretch of the imagination.

Perhaps a similar system is needed in maths and English - where "single maths" would largely be functional skills actually suited to what students are going to need in real life whereas "double maths" would include the extras (factorising quadratics and circle theorems for example).

I agree with you that the current grading system is actually a ranking system and I don't think it is fit for purpose. On the one hand schools, teachers, parents and (ultimately) the kids are told that they MUST get grade 4, yet the grade boundaries are set so as to ensure a particular percentage don't achieve grade 4. When talking about science that's less of an issue (for the students) - because the magic grade 4 in science isn't required if you want to (for example) study art at A level. But with English and Maths it seems grossly unfair.

On the original topic, I totally agree that compulsory resits are ridiculous. Optional GCSE resits (in maths/English) should be available for all students who got less than grade 4, but compulsory ones should only ever be functional maths / English.

Alexander
In case you think I hate the MDS scheme, personally I disagree with the principle of all private schools, that's why we would never use one, even if DS2 would benefit.
I directed our friend to all the links that MN had, and since then I have helped one of Ds1's rugby mates family to be aware of the dance side and their DD, is going off this month.
So I am willing to help kids access anything, like I said earlier I helped fund a girl to access Holland's best music schools from a FSM background.
On here I just rail against how unfair it is.
Whilst most seem to think it's ok because my kids get so why not.

AlexanderHamilton
I did bring MDS up, but because of funding against my kids.
I too had never heard off it until 3 years ago, when a poster on MN, started numerous threads on it and a famous music school. Then our Maid of Honour in the same year, announces her son was attending the same school. I believe they are in the same year.
Don't if poster is still here as they have name changed numerous times.

But according to both you and Romany, earlier on replying to my "jealous" posts, any one can apply, it's open to even my kids.
How is that?
Because Maisy could never direct kids to it, if we had not know that family or I had seen the threads on MN, we would be blissfully unaware, like all 1400 kids at Dses school and I guess most other kids in Hull and ERYC.
At least our school choice is truly open to anyone who applies.
I think most of UK parents wouldn't have a clue about MDS, and I guess that pleases the middle classes who will love it.

I looked at them when deciding whether to retrain. Then decided to stay local.

For all the crap teaching gets, endless point scoring, blamed for every evil in society, it is a good job most of the time. I've always said that when I start to hate it I'm leaving. I already can say with confidence if the time comes it will have nothing to do with the students.

I also never became a teacher.

Back in the day I applied to Bishop Grosseteste College for English/drama teacher training but I changed my mind & did music instead.

I tried posting on unconditional offers, and all the public school posters and others came on too slag off unconditional offers
Slag off or have a different opinion to you?
Big difference.

Noble
Seeing your Lord Adonis thread was my first, and I learnt then to give up. I tried posting on unconditional offers, and all the public school posters and others came on too slag off unconditional offers.
I no longer bother to post.
No way would I even ask a question about
University of Lincoln or UCScarborough on here, with out taking out triple life insurance.
Luckily we didn't need to, turns out since he got to Lincoln, we know at least 10 people who either went there or have kids there in the past.
All you rave about it.

The fact RG universities mess around with entry requirements in clearing is equally ridiculous. That has no relevance to my feelings on unconditional offers.

The whole thing has become even more farsical and more so since the cap on undergraduates has been lifted. It's all about chasing students to milk them as cash cows regardless of whether their degree is that good or gets them where they need to be.
I've heard of students ditching their places on results day once they've eyed up reduced requirements for higher universities in clearing.

Personally it should be applications after you get a level results, but that would involve changing the whole calendar. No predicted grades, no unconditionals. Nice and simple, studnet has X grades, they apply to university courses.

alexander
Ok. That makes more sense to me.

Dd will top up her diploma to a degree at Middlesex.

I very much doubt Ds will be going to university.

FFS Maisy
I am Thick but even I know Lincoln isn't in the same class as Oxford or Cambridge. Neither is it in St Andrews or any other top 20 university.
But after 2 years of his research, it was is aspiration choice, it was top 50, now 43. It ranks high in TEFL and Criminology leagues. So he applied. They offered an unconditional entry in less then 12 hours.
Even then he only chose it after visiting all his choices and not to March. He has been sent loads of offers of clearing from RG universities since his results came out, for Law and History degrees, all away higher original tariffs then he got.
I think that's a bigger affront, Ds is off to study a course he wants to do, with people who will be of similar intelligence and backgrounds. the university is ideal for him.
But clearing RG universities are selling a bigger lie, because they are suddenly willing to lower by upto 2 grades to get students to study a course he does want and probably hate and drop out.
I think Lincoln are more honest. But you wont.
I as a parent only have one concern, backing my Ds choice 100%, if that means I upset people who believe kids like mine shouldn't darken the doors of HE, I can live with that.
I think I have only ever seen 2 threads for parents choosing non RG universities, whilst a present there at least 10 on oxford and Cambridge alone. 2 universities against 85 non RG.

No, it was to user.

But I shouldn’t bite I know.

I’m not surprised you’ve never heard of them. There are only 8 such schools in the UK. The MDS scheme also funds several part time after school centres of excellence but they are located in major cities so not always practical to attend.

alexander is that a reply to me?
I've never even heard of them until this thread.

You were the person who introduced the topic of MDS schools user. Directly attacking them & the kids who attend.

I was mostly discussing my autistic son at his state comp struggling to reach Grade 4 English Language GCSE.

Can't even remember the thread in detail.

I do personally think places shouldn't be dishing out unconditional offers.

I'm a believer in a broad education sector, would like to see a broader range of higher education routes and degrees for everyone regardless of academic ability isn't something i agree with (especially when people then claim parity between courses and institutions based purely on preserving people's feelings).

My non red brick undergraduate didn't have the same content and academic focus as my friend's course at a top university, but had more academic content than the local 'takes everyone' university. That's a fact. I wouldn't expect people to go 'aww Maisy, don't worry all course are exactly the same so you ignore those people who say otherwise'. It's patronising nonsense.

maisypops
I once posted on a thread about unconditional offers and Ds1 having one, he got two in end. You a had great time, saying how crap unconditional offers to lower university was shit for all kids, even when I explained it was his highest offer. You kept repeating aim for RG.
Thankfully many others on the Lord Adonis thread told us to choose it.

Too prove my point there'sMaisyto slag off University of Lincoln again.
What??
I said this whereas I had deja vu hearing about Lincoln university. I swear there were some threads that kept coming back to someone going on about Lincoln about repeated themes and ideas on threads as in there have been a few threads I've been on in the last few months that seemed to repeatedly go back to Lincoln.

Bollocksyou lot only take the piss.
As a teacher who went to a failing school in a deprived area for some of my own education, worked my arse off to climb up sets, did my a levels and did my degree at a non red brick uni (first in my family to go), then had a career, and retrained to teach and have taught in a range of schools since, the sheer size of some chips on shoulders is ridiculous. It's like some popular conspiracy that all teachers are somehow middle class intellectuals from educated families who only care about very academic students and applying to oxbridge and dont care about anyone else, holding kids back out of laziness etc.
(It's almost as bad as the conspiracies thay teachers expecting children to behave are after blind obedience and rather than having an issue with lesson disruption, the teacher should have given in to the disruotive student. Any sanctioning of said disruptive child 'proves' that we want to crush the souls if children and are threatened by their free spirit nature)
I mean, fair enough if it gives you a cause to rally behind online but bloody hell.

By the way some asked why threads like these end up discussing Grammar, MDS and Hull.
It because us thick under educated aren't on MN. We aren't welcome.
Even most of Noble's threads are about High exam results and underfunding.
Too prove my point there's Maisy to slag off University of Lincoln again.
AS a parent of a child who was predicted D's for Gcse, gained C/B and has left with CCCD at A level, who have never been to university MN should have been a place to ask questions. Bollocks you lot only take the piss. Piggywaspushed excluded.

Bless you Piggywaspushed, compared to me your average teenager is highly educated
I am happy that you DD is truly happy at her school Romany, and actually we are for friend's Ds too. But it's hard to listen to gleeful parents, when you are fighting to tread water for your own kids.

Noble the only other thread of yours I even posted on was Lord Adonis and the future of state education in areas of Blackpool and Hull. seeing not one poster from Blackpool posted and only 2 from Hull, one who was in a private school. Plus 75% of the other responders used Eton, Winchester College. I thought I would education the wider world.

Noble,
noblegiraffe Fri 31-Aug-18 10:40:11
GCSEs being ‘designed’ to fail 30%. They weren’t designed to do anything of the sort. Back when they first came in in 1993, the A-C pass rate for English was 57.3% and for maths was 46.3%. They were designed to measure students and see if they met a particular standard.

You are making very important points in this post about the sequence of reforms, I won’t quote, I don’t disagree with most and don’t mean to bicker, but I think it is important.

One just can’t separate the specific impact of the design from the % of students that can pass it. The standard does not exist in abstract, it includes the hidden or apparent, the deliberate or perverse effect of the test format, the test structure, the skills it is taxing (e.g. ticking boxes at speed) and the skills judged relevant to the standard (e.g. Engl Lang vs Literature), and the marking method.

If you adjust the grade boundaries in the bell curve, you are measuring ranking, not strictly the standard. MaisyPops Fri 31-Aug-18 08:22:48
… Not all students will get over the 4 threshold. That's how the grading is designed (an increase in grades for one school is a dip somewhere else). I don't agree with it but that it the system.

The historic legacy of the standard and the design also has direct effect on the % who pass.
Why was the A-C pass rate for English 57.3% and for maths 46.3%. and not 95%? (excluding those with IQ

Bearing that in mind, it is certainly time to look at what employers actually want when they say they want GCSE grade c/4+ and whether GCSE meets this. Functional skills probably meets this requirement. Rather than complaining that not allowing pupils to resit GCSE prices them out of the market place and that they should do this regardless of the probable outcome, the marketplace should look at GCSE and adjust their requirements.

I can’t agree more with the bit in bold. Thank you Noble.

But there shouldn’t be two tier system, there should be one qualification, surely. The point of equal opportunity is to have qualifications of the same value.

What the effect of the difference between having Functional skills and having GCSEs will be? Functional would become a certificate of not being good enough, isn’t it?

If for example people with certain hidden disabilities would tend to go for Functional skills, it could become a flag for employers that this otherwise highly qualified applicant might have a disability, with resulting discrimination. The implications are profound.

noblegiraffe whereas I had deja vu hearing about Lincoln university. I swear there were some threads that kept coming back to someone going on about Lincoln

Yes romany nn is from LOTF. Poor old Piggy.

I am not near Yarmouth but it's in my TV area ( I am in an 'underachieving authority' though). The poor old coastal towns are massively losing out of all funding unless they are also alleged Northern Powerhouses (excluded from many government focus areas yet hugely impoverished in pockets and very culturally and geographically isolated). It'll be too late and then the government will notice. But then, as noble says, Barry is there excluding everyone so all will be well.