The DfE needs to stop the farce of compulsory Maths and English GCSE resits

Some odd discrepancies in grades for English Language and Literature here . I found it confusing ,it may bring the constituency of some marking in to question. This being to point out how grades for the two English GCSE can be so widely different for some pupils !

My son is autistic & despite being highly intelligent & talented in music & drama & on course got a Grade 8 in maths he will struggle to pass GCSE English.

As others have said, it’s the structure of the exam that children like him struggle with.

Unfortunately he needs at least a Grade 4/5 to get onto a drama course.

I don’t think that a functional qualification is putting them on the scrap heap. It would actually give them a chance to acquire the basic skills they need for their working life.

You have to get a 4 in Either Lit or Lang to not have to resit by Government rules.
But
Many employers will be asking for Eng Lang, so schools not making kids pass Lang may be doing them a disservice in the long run.

My son has to resit English (got a 6 in lit but 3 in lang, seems loads did) but I've just found out the other local secondary school isn't making kids who didn't get a 4 resit English? Going to confirm if that's right because I thought all schools had too resit

Universities need to start recognising functional skills as a relevant qualification unless you’re going to be studying something where very high levels of maths or English are required too

Irony is, these exams which cause so much expense for the tax payer, illness and distress to our kids, are worthless in our local EU employment and future studies market post March 2019.

EU Mutual recognition of qualifications ends with brexit.

Couldn't agree more.Don't know what to do. Am really upset for my DS who has so mnay problems and really went through hel to take these exams - and what now. ?? I don't even know where to start. Do I put him back through it and watch him fail again. And again? So does this mean he cannot study anythign else? Or get any sort of job?

I'm just wondering if it's across all undergrad entrance criteria for a level 2/ GCSE in Maths.
If it doesn't list Maths, does that mean you don't need it.
I've seen one that just says so many GCSE's but doesn't say including Maths and English.

Romany OCR level 2 is a functional skills exam.

Other exam boards are available.

Noble

Is the functional maths level 2 in any way similar to OCR level 2 also equivalent to a GCSE pass.

If so, I can agree that these are not only acceptable by employers and colleges for further and higher ed courses, but also to teach (post compulsory).

I have clients who only have "functional skills" English
actually at least one is illiterate
they earn good money using their physical and coordination skills

these resits are just CRUEL
the son of a friend got top grades in all of his creative 6th form subjects
but failed his maths again
WHY does he need that silly GCSE when his income will come from drawing ?

DD (dyslexic) just got a B in English Language and an F in English Literature. I was bowled over by the B, but the gap almost doesn't make sense. I think she really can't deal with complex multi-layered poetry and textual analysis, although she is [now] quite a competent reader.

She just resat Maths Foundation for the second time, this time getting a high 3. She drops small mistakes all over the place, but she is very consistent, manages the whole paper and actually is entirely competent in Maths after many years of struggling. It is going to depress her horribly to have to take it all over again. She's really had great maths teaching to get this far but of course the rest of the world doesn't really see it.

I'm AWFUL at maths and always have been, even with a consistent tutor throughout my primary school years. Yet English was my thing and something I really enjoyed. I have an English GCSE but not maths. All the uni courses I want to apply for need GCSE maths grade c or above and for 3 years since leaving secondary school have been unable to meet that criteria :( it means no university will accept me (even with all my other relevant qualifications). I want to study veterinary science for reference. (Also considering law!) I have a level 3 extended diploma and also a higher education diploma in psychology and criminology.

Compulsory re sits make a nice profit margin for the exam boards, though, OP.

I did some supply doing maths resits.

I asked why students on a 2 year course had to resit at every opportunity rather than having a year or 2 year long course - apparently that is policy.

What alternative is there for employers? They need employees who have at least basic levels of numeracy and literacy, if only to read warning signs/instructions, etc.

Functional skills literacy and numeracy.

Don't get me wrong I love maths but for most jobs you don't need calculus.

Employers can also devise their own tests.

I did a summer working for National Express, everyone started by doing numeracy, literacy and geography tests.

This was things like reading timetables, knowing what time someone needed to leave to make a connection, where the major airports are.

I realise that not every employer could do this, but maybe they could buy off the shelf tests

cakesandtea

We don't all think like that, if fact I think most don't.

On the placement above there was one student who clashed with just about everyone. In a maths class she said, "finished" in half the tmime it was taking others, I looked at her work and she had finished, and everything on it was perfect. I explained iteration to her and she spent the rest of the lesson manually calculating the square root of 5.

I flagged it with the staff that she obviously had ability if she cope with iteration.

Also cakes

One of the other students said in a lesson, "I get that, I never understood that at school" that's what I as a teacher live for, when the penny drops for someone. There is no feeling like it.

It isn't the fault of the DofE that employers and most colleges ask for maths and English GCSE's as part of their admission criteria.
I don't understand this, especially if the course/job doesn't require them.

What alternative is there for employers? They need employees who have at least basic levels of numeracy and literacy, if only to read warning signs/instructions, etc. That's why I've long advocated a lifestyle skills type of certificate/diploma confirming at a person has achieved the minimum standard where they can do basic things in the workplace. GCSE's in English and Maths aren't this, but employers need something.

Autism is indeed relevant to the discussion, as other SEN. Because ASD it is not intellectual impairment as such, but a different processing style, different mechanism. Autistic people need different, adapted teaching methods early on to succeed. But often it is diagnosed late, so DD for example was failed by her primary and got 96 in Maths and English SATs, while Educational Psychologist assessed her ability as 61%-tile (above average of 50%), in average range, she should be getting SATs in 105 range. But with 96 they put her in bottom set and on the 'flightpath' to nowhere. This is discrimination.

You would think potential depends on IQ, but then again, the actual measure of IQ is also affected by the autistic style and the 'measuring' method, so CAT for example puts autistic DC at a disadvantage, because there is no research whatsoever as to how it affects DC with ASD. As a result they get lower CAT scores due to test format, especially computer adaptive, with a score that in effect caps their progress due to artificially suppressed flightpath. Instead of putting SEN provisions in place early and accelerating progress after a set-back pre-diagnosis, they leave DC to rot on the low flightpath, which leads to a 3. Now you argue they should be left to their misery all together.

Families with SEN children and disadvantaged families are also taxpayers and voters. The education system should work for their children, give them opportunity. But the policy in reality is such that GCSE are designed to fail 40% and teachers salaries are linked to the success of the top sets, so they don't give a dam about children in the lower 40%, even if they are there for being failed by the system in first place.

Surely all DC with a 'normal' (forgive the word) IQ, above 80 or 70 should be getting a good GCSE pass and teachers should be penalised for failing those children, so they would support and accelerate the progress of those likely to get a 3 early on, to get them to a secure a 4 or 5.

I hate this too. not everyone is good at the core subjects.
It used to be that if you left school without O levels you could walk straight into a job or apprenticeship and work your way up.
My mum bless her passed the 11+ but had to get a job at 14 to support the family, she left with nothing but managed to find good jobs.

It isn't the fault of the DofE that employers and most colleges ask for maths and English GCSE's as part of their admission criteria.
I don't understand this, especially if the course/job doesn't require them.

My dd is lucky and has been told her college place isn't determined by passing GCSE's in Maths and English, she needs 3 of any subject, of course including the one she'll study.

Asked his English teacher (in a class of 17 year olds English resitters ) about Harvard Referencing for GCSE work !

It's sad that that the teaching profession thinks of nothing but leaving behind on the scrapheap perfectly capable children who were failed by the education system since primary and be unaccountable for this.

I tell you what is ridiculous. I know of a 40 something Autistic man that has just got a Theology Degree from the OU who is struggling with getting GCSE English that he requires for a possible teaching job ! He writes great 3000 word essays , but is struggling to get a grade 5 pass in GCSE English !

He asked is teacher should he use 'Harvard Referencing' for GCSE passages. This demonstrates an absurdity in a system where someone could have the skills for 'Masters' level writing in a academic subject but cannot pass GCSE English !

This highlights flaws in a system that requires GCSE English/Maths. This being for people who have far higher qualifications , but due to disability or hopeless' teaching methods failed at school.

This of course throws more 'obstacles' in the way of people who have already overcome extreme hurdles .

However, perhaps current pupils/students should study Maths and English to 18 years of age !

But Northern the English language GCSE isn't reflecting basic literacy any more.

Sadly, we've just found the same to be true. Very little of what I'd call literacy. My son's entire secondary school English teaching has been dominated by literature and poetry.

When I was at school, Eng Lang was all about writing letters, essays, articles, filling forms, etc with a comprehension which was usually factual and involved answering factual questions from an article/passage provided, so it was basically reading and understanding the words. My son's Eng Lang was all about interpreting literature texts and poetry, i.e. "explain the author's thoughts when he said 'green valley' or 'discuss the author's portrayal of character x' - to my mind, that's Eng Lit, yet it was in Eng Lang papers. Out of both Eng Lang's papers, there was only a single question that I'd put as Eng Lang, i.e. a single essay/descriptive/letter writing question which amounted to maybe a fifth of the total marks?

His 11+ English paper along side the 11+ verbal reasoning paper 6 years ago, was a far better examination of general literacy.