The DfE needs to stop the farce of compulsory Maths and English GCSE resits

The suggestion on this thread that the education system and the teachers should be dispensed from responsibility to educate those who have average ability to a mainstream Level 2 pass (GCSE grade 4) in universal secondary education is a step backwards and is structurally discriminatory for children with SEN.

Literally no one is saying that.

You are projecting so much rubbish based on your one single student experience.

It is in my interest as a teacher for my students to achieve the highest grades possible.

You aren't understanding that for some students (both with and without SEN) achieving a grade 4 is impossible. They simply cannot understand, retain and apply the knowledge no matter how long they spend learning it.

I cannot think of more than a handful of students who should have achieved a grade 4 but didn't.

I might just be practising my kind 'teacher' smile and extra slow talking ready for the start of term, Piggy...

I was too livid to explain cant but you did it so well.

I have labelled certain pupils who used to laugh and physically /verbally abuse DS things for wearing his school jumper inside out or back to front or walking 'funny'.

Yes, but surely you would label these particular children as unkind or bullies.

As far as I understand it, these are not the same children as you charmingly chose to label dim - children across the whole spectrum of academic ability can be unkind, and can be bullies.

Dim is an unkind word used in a derogatory manner to denote those who are cognitively impaired, or may find academic subjects hard, often those with SEN which affect their ability to learn.

I find it somewhat strange that you should choose a word which has unkind, bullying, derogatory connotations to describe those who are not highly academic in a school setting, while at the same time complaining about the verbal bullying of your DS for his SEN?

I have taught children with SEN who are exceptionally intelligent, and others (sometimes with the same diagnosis on paper) who have significant cognitive impairment, and everything in between.

The point is always, surely, to work with the child, their family, experts and clinicians to, as far as possible, identify the barriers that particular child has to their learning and, as far as possible within the physical, time and monetary constraints we all work within, reduce those barriers.

Tbh, it's no different in approach, though obviously different in scope and detail, from teaching any child: find out what they can do, establish the next thing they need to learn to do, identify any difficulties in learning to do it, teach them to do it, repeat.

(I chuckled, by the way, at the idea that a grammar school would be the best provision for the most academic of the children with SEN I have taught over the years: yes, I agree, a superselective in the area might well be a good fit for some, but they have made it crystal clear that the level of 1:1 support and daily adaptation needed for the children in question to access the 11+ and the school are simply 'you have to understand, just not available in a school like this')

One thing that I've seen that works well (based on my very limited knowledge of maths teaching) is having a post 16 certificate in maths instead of an a level. Some colleges near me (including mine) offer a course by a board that's higher than GCSE but not an A Level.

I'd hate for English to be compulsory post 16, mainly because post 16 is the only time we ever get students opting to study it. The rest of the time we are dealing with whole cohorts whilst humanities lament that they've got 6 studnets who might not suit the GCSE course.

I think that all students should have to study some maths & English up to the age of 18 but not necessarily a GCSE or A Level. Sort of complimentary/enrichment studies perhaps. But I live in an area where most schools are 11-16 & the kids then go off to massive 6th form colleges. It probably isn’t practical in a small school 6th Form.

You speak so much sense AlexanderHamilton.

There's good and bad in the system for all sorts of children. One school near me seems to do well on it's SEND and disadvantaged but their outcomes for bright students aren't great and able students get a pretty raw deal at that school in my opinion.
Some schools have amazing EAL provision because they do a lot of EAL teaching witj studnets who arent fluent in English or are in an area with lots of community languages. Then you go to a school in coastal Yorkshire that's 98% white British and suddenly the arrival of an EAL student witj limited English sets a mild panic off because they've not really had to do that.

Anyway, back to the original topic... resits yes.

I have labelled certain pupils who used to laugh and physically /verbally abuse DS things for wearing his school jumper inside out or back to front or walking 'funny'.

You were the one who just labelled other students dim.

I’ll tell that to Dd - she will be most amused.

And Ds who is top of the top set in maths & a talented actor but happens to not be able to write in a GCSE English manner.

Their “labels” have enabled them to access support & understanding & helps them to know there is a reason they are the way they are.

You have an agenda - that much is obvious & I have no doubt that some schools are awful at dealing with these things. But most teachers are done by the best they can under the current system to help children to achieve to their potential (not what their parents would like their potential to be).

I could blame the teachers for ds’s poor prognosis in English. Or I could accept he is who he is & work on helping him to get the best out of what he can achieve.

Yes, lets, I do believe I do.

And if your know anything , the amount of abuse children with SEN get from some of the aforementioned pupils is 'horrible'.

Often been labelled..

Do you know what is like for bright children with SEN ! They have often labelled and defined from the moment the set foot in Nursery school . This means such children are effectively prisoners within their own minds .

ANY school recognises that there is a range of children both with and without SEN. Our top sets contain students with ASD, visual impariment and many other SEN diagnoses. Our bottom sets contain students witha range of learning dificulties and without. A boy I taught with ASD just got an 8 in GCSE Lit.
And, goodness - some of us don't even set!!
We don't set at KS3 except 1 in each year at who don't do a modern language (seems to be quite a common set up to give extra literacy and numeracy).

Sorry for my sarcastic rant there it really does my head in seeing outright falsehoods being spread on here as it risks worrying parenta needlessly. There's enough posts where parents worry that their child's educational outcomes are determined by SATs without claiming some children aren't taught anything and are doomed to never get GCSEs.

ANY school recognises that there is a range of children both with and without SEN. Our top sets contain students with ASD, visual impariment and many other SEN diagnoses. Our bottom sets contain students witha range of learning dificulties and without. A boy I taught with ASD just got an 8 in GCSE Lit.

And, goodness - some of us don't even set!!

I know you like to come on to every thread and get on to a grammar soapbox lets but what you just said is insulting to almost everyone.

Leave my kids out of your SEN experiment thanks.

dim

Jesus wept.

Not if SATs turn out to be in lower stream (sets). They will progress at slower pace and never exposed to material that enables good grades.
Well that's my lower sets doomed forever. Yep. I never did anything challenging with them at all. In fact I took one look at their SATs scores and thought fuck this & ripped up the schemes of work because i can do colouring and mindfulness for the whole year, slot in a few word searches. Maybe we'll read Elmer the Elephant and Spot the Dog once a week. Didn't do any writing other than some stories either. Who has the time for that. Bottom set so it'll be shite. I could teach them some excellent books but nah, we invented out comics. Bottom set kids don't need no books. Right easy year. Having bottom set is awesome because you don't actually have to teach them anything useful...

Or alternatively, they accessed a structured curriculum building from primary with some recap of key ideas throughout, we studied KS3 texts (though admittedly Sickens was done in an abridged form with some original extracts), they discussed and debated the poor laws, wrote slimmed down versions of essays, were coached in how to analyse language but had some extra focus on literacy skills to close the gap. They did extended writing twice a week and by the end of the year most of the class were meeting the standard expected for the year.

But sure. Bottom set means kids never learn anything.

Thanks Cake. What we need is Grammar Schools for 'academically able' pupils with SEN.

The expectation being for pupils to attain at appropriate levels for their IQs ! . Specialist teachers are required, those who understand 'bright' children with SEN. They can grasp why such children fail in mainstream education and will not accept levels 1-3 being the pinnacle of achievement..

The other problem in 'state' schools being children like my DS and your elder DS get labelled as not being bright.

This is despite having IQs placing them in the 20% of the population (this of course is lower than actually their intelligence really is ).

Imagine the level of intelligence a 'neurotypical' person would have to display if asked to do a task blindfolded with their wrong hand.

Finally another thing bright children with SEN should not be put in sets with neurotypical dim children . Yes some kids without SENs are actually not very bright...

Branleuse your son’s experience is sadly typical for many who try to obtain qualifications in FE. It’s madness to think that replicating a system that failed for these learners in school will succeed further down the line. That’s why where I work we limit class sizes to 12 and provide one to one supervised sessions using online resources prior to booking on to classes. Over 90% who have previously not succeeded go on to obtain Level 2, possibly after a number of attempts but we encourage learners to think of their exams as they would a driving test and be resilient if they do not pass first time.
I am however waiting for someone at a higher level to decide what we do is not cost efficient. At that point I will hand in my resignation.
BTW your lad’s L1 FS will get him on to a L2 (intermediate) apprenticeship.

Best wishes to your son, Lets. The struggle never stops though.

My elder DS also had A levels over 3 years. Flexibility is the only way.
The old GCSE English was an epic struggle, the school tried all sort of controlled assessments of several different specifications and exam boards... it was hair raising. He got a C. If SEN provisions and Speech Therapy would have supported his Speech and Language, his inference and essay writing from year 7, it would not have come to that and he would have done better at humanities. But hey, he got A* in maths and A in sciences. He is going to read Computing at uni, he is natural in programming and algorithms. I don't know what he would have done with English now. Would need some kind of obsessive overlearning and hypno-coaching for exams, lol. But it would be dreadful not to have a chance to repeat and resit.