Disagreeing with your child about school choices

I was the one newbie that was left out, yes it does happen. I spent at least the first half term of secondary being called 'loner' and 'billie no mates' every break time because none of the friendship groups would admit me, no matter how hard I tried.

But in so many areas it’s not a given that everyone in a friendship group transfers to the same school and it’s not a given that ready made friends from Primary stay as friends. They don’t. Many friendship groups admit new children or break up and fluctuate over the years. Secondary age children find more in the pond like them. Previous friends do the same. It’s rarely the case where one newbie is left out. How would children new to an area ever make friends if that was the case? How would a single child from a primary ever go to a grammar of selective school and be happy, but they do. Friends are less important than the overall package of the school and parents are more often better placed to judge.

@bubblesbuddy at the beginning of primary school, no-one knows each other, and are all in the same boat. At secondary, if 99% of your year already have friends from their primary school with them, and you're one of the few that doesn't, it's awful.

He’s 11 or 10. Be the parent and choose the best school for his future. I made this mistake with dd1 and it led to years of bullying and problems when her primary friends turned into queen bee mean girls overnight. Friends will change wherever they go.

@bubblesbuddy my primary school friends were made mostly at the start of primary school. I became painfully shy as an adolescent.

I find it odd that some people can make friends at primary school but cannot at secondary 6 weeks later. Most children can make this transition and find friends. It’s unususl not to be able to do this. Even if you go with friends, they can find new friends and abandon primary friends. It’s a very fluid situation and there are no guarantees that any child will even stay in the area, let alone be your friend for the next 7 years.

I was forced to go to the school my parents wanted me to go to, none of my friends were going to the same one. I had five years of hell being bullied and (for the most part) friendless. Friendships are so, so important at that age, I think you should definitely give that some consideration.

With dd1 it was my choice really but one that she was happy with and agreed with. We had the slight advantage complication that the primary school is covered by 2 separate schools admission zones plus a 3rd umbrella admission zone, so from very early on we had to have the 'you can't just choose where your friends want to go'

I didn't like our admission zone school, and I really didn't want her to go to it, I had 2 preferences (none of the 3 mentioned above) and I let her chose which one to put 1st. She has thrived there and made loads of new friends, despite all her friends going to the other 3 schools.

DS is going into yr 6, he will be going to the same school as dd1, we have moved and now live firmly in the admission zone. He is pretty much going to get no choice in the matter, he has autism and has absolutely no road safety whatsoever. He can get to this school with only needing to cross one very small side road.

I confess I lean towards letting them have a major say, and if push comes to shove decide, after having been a child whose parents chose their secondary school, where that choice was a complete disaster. I was not involved in the choice at all. Luckily I was too young for my year, so was still under the age for the 11+ when I was in year 7. And we phoned around the private schools, and found one (the one I really wanted to go to anyway) who, if I did well enough to win a scholarship, were prepared to take me into Year 8. I did, they did, and that was a success.
The problem with the school my parents chose was - I had no friends. And a lot of the reason I had no friends was because I was operating in a different academic league than the rest of the school (for example, I got 100% in every single maths test I sat at that school, the next top mark was generally around 60%). The school started with five Year 7 classes of 30 students each. From the year I left, 13 students finished the equivalent of A levels! This is despite the school being a comprehensive with an academic reputation (part of what had attracted my parents). Sure, this was in the days before league tables and the internet, but even today, I suspect parents can still get it badly wrong, especially if they only talk to teachers (yes, the teachers loved me, - once they saw the equivalent of my CATs scores I got whipped out of the class I was supposed to be in due to my surname (classes were allocated alphabetically) and put in the first class so the head of year could watch over me. That didn't make it a good experience for me. What I needed was what the scholarship class at my fancy private all girls school could offer me (the school had tons of money from endowments so could have virtually a whole class of scholarship girls)a whole bunch of very able girls amongst whom I didn't stand out like a sore thumb and amongst whom I could find friends.
When it came to my own DC, I certainly did "steer" them, but also listened to what they were saying. We did see a lot of schools together, so they could get a sense of the options. But I was reluctant to discount "the word on the street" or should I say "the classroom" - sometimes there can be a lot of value in that. It is one thing if it is just not having somebody you know, it is another if none of the people ending up at your school are likely to be the sort with whom it will be easy to make friends, especially if you aren't the most social butterfly out there.

Mine at that age both wanted to go to the schools where their best friends would be going. Both ended up very happy and successful at the other school we chose for them (which they both now admit was much much more suitable for them than their friends' schools) .

On the other hand my parents let me choose my own secondary school. . At the age of ten/ eleven I based my choice on a) fear of being teased by friends for going to the 'posh' school, b) knowing someone who went to the school of my choice who had a pony (my fantasy was riding to school) C) being scared of the school my parents wanted for me because I'd heard a story about a dc having a whole hour of homework!

Needless to say my choice was disastrous and with hindsight I am pretty angry with my parents for not taking parental responsibility and making the decision.

This is a generalisation but speaking with friends, those with DDs tended to involve them more in the choice as they seemed mature enough and able to look at the longer term. It wasn’t solely about friends. For those with DSs or a mixture of DCs, they say their DSs were not so prepared or reasoned to make the judgement about secondary school. As I say, this is just a small poll so not scientific but seems interesting. Each parent will know how well their child can make these sorts or inputs. By sixth form they are more on the same emotional maturity level.

I think from what you are saying this is to switch at 11? If so, absolutely you get the casting vote. By all means listen to them, but they are not mature enough at this age to make a decision like this

My husband was offered a scholarship at a wonderful school and turned it down. His parents let him. He is massively intelligent but lacking direction and finally got a degree aged 38.

No way will I let my kids do that. A good education opens many doors.

Hmm, ultimately we let our dd choose her secondary school but were sort of happy with her choices. She is very academic and choices were grammars or a super selective. I preferred the standard grammar school, she set her heart on the super selective, for various reasons, and is doing really well there. I was worried that she would struggle with the workload, struggle to keep up etc. However, she went to a school where she knew no one, I don't think friendships is a good enough reason to choose a secondary school.

And totally agree about friends being. A poor guide. You never really know others' plans; they may not get places anyway; and he may well be in none of their classes anyway.

All of this plus they may not remain friends even if they do end up in same school and class. That's what happened with DD1 - in fact they were a source of problems - two years later she has completely different set of friends and is much happier.

I was forced to go to a school several miles away that entailed 2 buses whilst ALL my mates went to the local high school at 13. I spent 2 years trying to make friends that I wouldn’t see outside school and had arrived with their mates from middle school. Too much focus and effort of make no friends & academia definitely slipped. Needless to say my 2 chose and my 3rd will. They chose from good schools, but ultimately the choice was theirs & will be. There’s a lot of factors involved and it’s a good idea for you all to consider your priorities such as school fit, ethos etc, teaching, pastoral care, differential between the schools re achievements (whatever that may be for your family & not necessarily stellar results), distance/ease of seeing school friends outside, ability to continue with existing friends, Is his choice very different to yours?

We were down to two schools. dS2 desperately wanted to go to A, where his brother goes. We felt it was wrong for him (rather regret getting. The place in the first place, but the way the system works one has to apply in year 5 for a place in year 9) and it was too far ahead to be sure then).

He was distraught and we had a number of scenes for months. It was dreadful (I am aware that so need to establish more emotional independence from my children :-). ) but I did not believe that he had the skill sir rationality to make a better decision than us.

Thankfully he is now pretty happy with the decision. They are both great schools (it was all a ludicrously first world problem scenario) and as they have differing natures there will always be the odd twinge whichever way we went but ultimately I felt that parenting sometimes means making unpopular decisions.

Lots of good advice above about how to tackle handling things.

And totally agree about friends being. A poor guide. You never really know others' plans; they may not get places anyway; and he may well be in none of their classes anyway.

Both my children went to Boarding school not knowing a soul. They wanted the school far more than staying with “friends”. Others who did go to secondary with friends didn’t stay friends with those friends. They clicked with others. So who you know widens out as different abilities and extra curricular takes shape. The children mature and change.

I would look at more than academics and current friendships. When looking at schools we made a whole list of all our “wants” and ranked each element on the list. We ranked some as essential (eg equivalent results to the local grammar school which was the alternative) and others as desirable (distance from home). You can then see which meets requirements for all of you. Ultimately though you choose but hopefully the exercise has pointed to that school anyway!

I think it's important to emphasise to DC (and to parents for that matter) that you don't get a choice and no one does. You get to express a preference. Even if a particular friend wants to put school B as first choice doesn't mean they will definitely go there.

You also need to emphasise to DC that so far they only have conscious experience of being a 6-10 year old (assuming they don't have much memory of being 0-6) but you need to choose a school suitable for being age 11-16 (or 18) in - and he doesn't know what that's like but his parents do.

Take his preferences into account when all other factors broadly balance one another out and you are choosing between options where the different advantages and disadvantages are roughly equivalent.

If other factors bring a different school to the front then go with your own judgment.

It depends on whether you truly think the school is a better fit for your child, or whether you are just looking at results etc.

We let DS1 choose, because I watched him carefully at the open days, and the school he was desperate to go to was clearly the school where he had already bonded, and looked most comfortable at.

It is not, on paper, the best school he could have chosen, and DH still has some issues with this, but it was right for DS1. He has thrived.

DS2, I pretty much persuaded to go to the other school, because he wasn't bothered and I think it is a better fit for him.

Both time, we went to the open evenings and I told them to clear their heads of friends etc, and just imagine what they would do in the school in years to come. Clubs, options, etc.

Best to point out to your DS that schools often avoid putting friends together. DS1 went with a group of friends, but didn't have a single primary school friend in a class for year 7 or 8.

Discuss. Make lists of pros and cons. How far away is your choice? How easy travel. How many of his friends going?

Parents make the decision but hear their child's opinion and input.

I've known students get a really tough ride through secondary because their parents let them choose the school they wanted, then when there was friendship issues we had all the 'but I want to go to school B'. Sometimes they get moved. Sometimes the move works. Sometimes they get moved back after B hasn't worked. Letting the child dictate their school rarely seems to go well.

I'm all for taking on board what the child thinks and feels but ultimately the decision is for parents.

As someone who was forced by my parents to change School twice, at age 10 and then age 13, with absolutely no say in the matter, unless of course it was what they wanted to hear, I would never do the same to my child. I had a bloody miserable time and I’ve never really been ok with that. We’ve been going through the same with dd2 who is about to start Y9, and she is adamant that she wants to stay with her friends. If she’s happy socially it reduces the headache considerably, and ime you can focus much more clearly on your academic work if you’re happy with your friends.

Parents get the final say!

You start with a conversation with him that says we need to put 3 schools down on our application form, so we need to go and visit all the more local secondary schools before we make any decisions.
Then you can hopefully have a good conversation between the three of you about what is important, make a list and then look objectively at each one.
You idea of a more academic school which will suit him better, sounds good but actually is that what he thinks? Is something else as well as friends driving his idea of which he wants to go to. It seems to me that between the three of you, you are all making decisions that are not based on reality but based on your thoughts. So maybe you all need to take a step back and rethink how you will make what is an important decision.