School Trips

at older dds school there were always massively over subscribed trip. i was always pretty blunt with them.
i will put your name down.
you have a 1 in 10 chance of going
you have a nearly zero chance of your best friend going
no moaning about it in any circs.
more or less covered it.

This why it’s better when you can’t afford school trips. You just say ‘there’s no money’. Then there’s none of this to deal with.

Reservoir
Is that private?
Christ South Africa, we nearly bankrupt ourselves getting them to Belgium or France. As in all parents we know pay £10/week or £45/month.

User - that is just your school though - outs had a rugby tour to South Africa. As someone else said it is up to the teacher to decide amd arrange etc.

NOBLE
Because they have workbooks ands relate the cost of Paris to Hull and then compare and produce spreadsheets and graphs. Also taken to see Paris Architecture and learn have maths relates to them.

Well that how the maths dept sells it to the kids, and then charges us £650 for privilege, or in our case £350, because the other child lost their payments.
So much as GHGN says.
Looking back History and Geography where the best trips.
But how do a whole PE dept justify a 10 day break to Barcelona for football, including all 6 teachers, for £1100, when the Hockey, Netball, rounders, rugby and athletic teams never go anywhere. Even the PGL trips are organised by year 7 & 8 leaders. To be fair the rugby coach lost two summer weeks in 2013 & 14, when the year 9 and 10 team won the National schoolboys champions and lost in the following years final. But they never get a trip.

It is definitely a Maths trip, noble. The kids will spend the whole time working out how much money is wasted on that trip, how much bt is being thrown around trying to dress anything to be mathematical. A trip to their teacher’s teaching room will be cheaper and guarantee that they will learn more Maths.

How is a trip to Eurodisney and Paris a maths trip?

I get there has to be a short list, names out the hat.
But we found for popular visits, like Maths, 50 places for years 9 and 10, 660 kids in total. Trip included day at Eurodisney and free day and evening in Paris, even if you miss out in year 9, we did, you still missed out in year 10, but 4 class mates went both times.
But History, WWI battlesfield trip in 2014, went with 41 out of 50 and 2015 WW2 trip, Ds was begged to go, we did pay a second £350, because only 24, originally wanted to go, so in end 30 went.
Geography was same, 75 places, visit to Zoo and wind farms, only 65 went, only 6 boys too.
But Maths, Skiing £650, and Football to Spain £1100, you can't get on. Our comp is next door to 2 of the poorest council estates in Britain, it mainly the same MC kids go year in year out, Ds2 best mate has been to Spain Years 7, 8, 9 and 10. Though is other friend has never made the cut. It similar for Skiing, same faces in the school website and newsletter.

So yes great, but surely if you have too many, the ones who been before shouldn't get priority over ones who you never pick. But schools seem to fall down on this.

Though to be fair OP, Ds1 went Paris of the reserve list, with 5 weeks notice, thanks to a great aunt paying. We have to pay in monthly instalments to afford such trips.

Yes it was badly organised / communicated.

I assume that never before have they been over subscribed, so it took them by surprise. In that situation a ballot seems fairer than first come, first served.

Do they know that one has been selected and one hasn’t?

In your shoes I would e ma and say it is really upsetting to have one selected for the trip and the other not and you would be very grateful if the other could go on a waiting list.

Don’t go in with your somewhat intractable ‘no I am not over-reacting’ complaint.

The question is, did the initial letter state that the way of sorting out oversubscription would be first come first served?

Or was that your assumption, which turned out to be false?

There is almost certainly a line in the trips / expeditions policy - or whatever it is called at your school - which states the action to be taken in the event of over-subscription of any trip. What does it say?

Disadvantaged? Really?

What about the kids whose parents have absolutely no chance of affording it. Ever.

You need to get a grip.

We have an admin member of staff who does the bookings, but we still run the info nights, the applications, the planning, the parental stuff, staffing etc.
There's a lot of work involved and as PPs have said, when you get the 'it's not fair' brigade and the confrontational demandinf ones, it really does put people off running them.
The way some carry on it's like their child has a right to do whatever trip they like.

So does my school, Bubbles. It’s still a lot of work to organise a trip.

My local grammar has a school trip administrator - she’s my friend. Teachers don’t do the day to day grind of it there.

I had to read the whole thing to see if it is real. Such a first world problem.

Schools don’t have to offer trips. Teachers aren’t paid to organise them or go on them. You get a football trip because someone is willing to organise a football trip. You don’t get a netball trip because there isn’t.

The more parents there are who are moaning arses about trips, the less likely teachers are to want to organise them. It’s a lot of work.

Whats skiing or football trips to do with education anyway.
Wider enrichment.
Not every child is in a position where their family can afford to take 4 people skiing. They might however be able to save and send their child with a school group.

Enrichment plays a huge role in the life of many private schools and state schools try ot level the playing field a litte bit by offering more to their enrichment. It's not loads but it's something beyond the school and immediate community.

The comp are two attend(ed) do this. In year 7 and 8 theres a PGL trip. Every year they take everyone who books. Think £45 for 3 days.
But then they do maths, history and geography trips for year 9 and 10. But limit them to 45 kids. But there over 150 kids doing history and geography. Nearly 500 doing maths. Daft.
Also skiing trips years 8 to 10 and football trips to Baralona for years 7 to 10. Both alls oversubscribed. But tell me this teachers and school supports, we know at least 6 kids who have gone skiing in each year, and at least 10 who have lost in the draw each year, football trip much the same. Ours never wanted to ski and play rugby and cricket so not in for footy trip.
Also why no rugby, hockey, cricket or netball trips. Not every kid likes football or skiing.
Seems to me school trips should either be open to every kid like PGL or dont bother.
Whats skiing or football trips to do with education anyway.

Why are trips being run that arent open to everyone?

Generally it’s impractical to organise a trip for the whole school and then see who signs up and cancel coaches, staffing etc.

But you'll sound like a three year old if you say to school "it's not fair"...
But always funny (and exasperating) for staff.
Some parents love to think that all children are equal but some are more equal than others.

E.g. I know it's been upsetting for some not to get a place, but it's been even more upsetting for my child and is there a chance...
E.g. Some children got on as their only one in tjeir friendship group and my DC was the only one out of his group not to go. Surely it would make sense to swap.
E.g. If you want to run a trip then it's only fair for school to have their act together and staff it properly instead of only staffing it for so many (but i wouldn't be complaining if my child made the cut)
E.g. It's not right to offer trips but not have places for everyone (but i wouldn't be complaining if my child made the cut)

E.g. lots and lots of hyperbole about how much worse everything is for their child

E.g. lots and lots of being arsey, confrontational and attempting to bully the school into changing the decision

One I am aware of, the parent started saying parents of disappointed kids would find funds to cover another member of staff if it meant their children could go.

Really over reacting. It's th Luck of the draw. Just send the unlucky dc on the next ski trip.

If other siblings are both going that kind of proves the point that it was random... my point was that by insisting ALL sets of siblings be allowed to go may disadvantage an only child who didn't get a place because there were so many sibling groups who were given priority - which is what you are suggesting!

it should be a clear policy that it will be names out of a hat.
my dds primary changed to this after i pointed out that my dd never went on anything because i collected her from after school club at 5.30 and all places allocated before that.
i would send one this year and save furiously for the one next year. if its 3x the cost he will get a place.
and ask if other son can have first refusal. in my experience there are a few who drop out cos their mates are not going etc.

GreenTulips That’s a bit different - the holiday was never on offer to the other two. It’s more akin to the friend’s parent offering to take all three then saying there’s not enough space - I imagine you would be a bit miffed in that entirely hypothetical situation!

I do think it’s pretty rubbish of the school to change selection style after deposits had been paid (unless it was made clear before that oversubscription would result in random selection). If you’d gone into it knowing that this might happen, then it would still be disappointing, but you’d at least have been able to anticipate it before they got their hopes up too much.

Now it has happened, I don’t think there’s anything to be done but suck it up, or pull your other son out and make alternative plans, and maybe politely request that the school plan ahead for these situations in future. You could ask if they’ve considered the possibility of making extra spaces available (I would imagine they already have and that it’s not feasible - it’s usually not as simple as booking an extra coach) and whether they’ll hold a waiting list, as someone will inevitably drop out (though you’re DS may still end up at the bottom of the list).