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Original poster

Renting in catchment area and owning outside it

112 replies

CauliflowerBalti · 20/07/2018 22:59

We are moving to the catchment area of my son’s current primary school in order for him to continue his education with his peers at the secondary school within that area.

We were hoping to move there in 5 years’ time when I will have a lump of money to put into a mortgage, but the secondary school is getting more and more oversubscribed. The time apparently is now.

His application needs to be in by the end of October, so it’s all happening rather fast. I have no intention of committing fraud. We are moving to live there for beyond his education years. But renting for at least a year, if not more.

I do not want to sell the home we live in now. My husband and I had a big disagreement about moving at the start of the year. He wanted to, I didn’t. We stayed, and did some lovely renovations. This is a lovely house. I don’t want to leave it yet - but I will.

I want to rent it out for a decade or so, then gift it to my son. That’s my plan.

Does anyone have any idea how I can prove to the LA that I’m not cheating my way in? It’s so important to my son that he stays with his peers. He’s a very anxious soul. We need to move. But we’ve left it late. I may not have found a tenant for here by 31 October. I may still be paying council tax in two places. It worries me. I rang the LA to ask, and was totally honest, and she was very lovely and said I just needed to prove that my rented house is my permanent and only home. I will easily be able to do that - it will be. But what if I end up under the nose of someone less tolerant?

Has anyone experienced this?

OP posts:
Schroedingerscatagain · 21/07/2018 22:08

Derby and Derbyshire have a few particularly good schools which are heavily over subscribed

Consequently rental properties in those catchments are often yearly turn over with people trying to do as you plan to

The authorities are very wise to this here, some addresses automatically flag on systems

The fact is you want to have your cake and eat it, keep your property you own and rent another

you never actually mention selling and buying another house so it could appear that you plan to move back at some point

A few years ago a parent of my dd’s friend thought of doing the same as you, renting out a house owned in Belper and renting a property to live at in Duffield (for Ecclesbourne and William Gilbert)

Derbyshire made it clear to her that unless the house was for sale it would be treated as her application address because it would be seen as a fraudulent application

Original poster
CauliflowerBalti · 21/07/2018 22:00

I already have to do self assessments - ugh - but the rest of the points, yes.

Ok. Maybe I’m not going to be a property magnate.

OP posts:
Momzilla82 · 21/07/2018 21:51

You'd also be liable for CGT on the increase in value, need to file self assessment for the rental income (which has become horribly complex with phasing out of mortgage interest relief), and I believe there's extra stamp duty liable for the purchase of a second home. As an accidental landlord and owner of a surplus home; sell the first. It's simpler. It's also then impossible to be seen as cheating a system

Dontblameitontheboogie · 21/07/2018 21:50

ALL I wanted to know is how I can prove to the LA that the rental property isn't and won't be our home ever again.

You can’t. And chances are they won’t b interested in detailed explanations. Our LA was clear: if you own a house nearby then that’s the address we’ll use. Period.

In our case it didn’t matter, but I’d never do what you’re proposing. Most likely it won’t work and you’ll have gone through the expense and hassle of moving, only to end up with a disappointed DC.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 21/07/2018 21:40

converting to buy to let mortgage (which would actually be proof, right? I can’t live there then...)
No it is not, as its quite straightforward to get the banks permission for an owner to live in their buy to let property.

I would support selling the house and investing the money for your DCs future. The house is just sentimental.

Walkingdeadfangirl · 21/07/2018 21:37

If she is involved with admissions you really need something in writing. You really cant trust such an important decision on someones word over the telephone.

So obviously get GP letters, rental agreement, council tax and all the utilities etc, but it will be a gamble and you wont wont know until offers are sent out.

Sorry, it sounds like you are doing everything right but admissions is like a fight in the lions den. You need to get guarantees before you risk your DCs school place.

Good luck.

Original poster
CauliflowerBalti · 21/07/2018 21:30

It doesn’t. I think I’m just being sentimental. I spoke to a mortgage adviser last week and she talked about keeping the house, converting to buy to let mortgage (which would actually be proof, right? I can’t live there then...), taking £20k out toward new house... it all sounded good.

But I could just save the mortgage payments in a savings account for him. Or invest all the equity for him. Though then we’d struggle for a deposit.

It might be that when we sit down and do all the numbers for new home purchase, we can’t affird to keep old one. I’m not a fan of overcommitting financially. But I love the house. It looked after me when I was alone with my boy. I looked after it. I might just be in the throes of moving on. Everyone feels sad about leaving houses behind, yeah? I can help my boy on other ways...

OP posts:
caroldecker · 21/07/2018 21:14

Why does selling the house prevent your son getting a hand up? Can't you invest the money for him?

Original poster
CauliflowerBalti · 21/07/2018 21:11

And I’ll report back - it will be interesting either way.

OP posts:
Original poster
CauliflowerBalti · 21/07/2018 21:08

I have the woman’s name but I confess I do not know whether she’s head of admissions or the work experience girl. Though she’s a mature student if she is.

She said I wouldn’t have to prove I wasn’t living in the old house - just that I am living in the new one. She said they’d need council tax bills, a rental agreement and something like a GP registration.

My mind was set at ease. All these things will be possible. Then I started reading about authorities refusing admissions even with these documents (though down south, not in my area) and I panicked.

I’ll call again on Monday and get very specific assurance.

OP posts:
Walkingdeadfangirl · 21/07/2018 21:01

Did the woman you spoke to mention how you could prove any of this? And who was this woman?

Maybe if you gave some specifics somebody on here could help.

Having read many MN posts on catchment, that is an up hill task and will require something concrete. Good luck, only thing I can think to advise is get her assurances in writing.

Original poster
CauliflowerBalti · 21/07/2018 20:54

I’m cool with facts. The woman I spoke to said renting our current home out wouldnt be a problem as long as we could prove we were living fully in catchment. So if I sound defensive over accusations of cheating, it’s because she didn’t mention anything about cheating.

It’s only reading scare stories that made me ask the question. And really I just need to talk to someone else in admissions for a second opinion, because different areas clearly have different rules.

OP posts:
Walkingdeadfangirl · 21/07/2018 20:41

CauliflowerBalti Don't blame posters, we are only pointing out facts.

ALL I wanted to know is how I can prove to the LA that the rental property isn't and won't be our home ever again The only thing you can do is sell your house. If you apply owning the house whilst living in a catchment rental you will be caught cheating. It just isn't enough to say, "I am committing to the area", they have heard that a million times.

Very simple, sell your house before applying to the catchment school and your sorted, dont and you will be categorised as breaking the rules.

Original poster
CauliflowerBalti · 21/07/2018 20:19

TeenTimesTwo - the school talked me through the appeals that had been held this year. No one outside of boundary got in - the only successful appeals were from within, and they were all home movers into the area post October/pre March. Of the current y6 at my boy's school, the only kids that didn't get in are outside catchment. All catchment children got a place. I'm kidding about them being bribed to keep house prices up.

OP posts:
Original poster
CauliflowerBalti · 21/07/2018 20:13

Oh for the love of all that is holy... I am committing to the area. I always have been committed to the area. It has always been where we intended to move to. Nowhere else. There. We just need to do it sooner than we'd thought. It is where we will live, as a family, shop, as a family, socialise, as a bloody family. We renovated the house we are in to make it more practical and pleasant for a few years. We had an extension planned to start build at the end of Sept that has now been cancelled, because we are not going to live there so there is no point and we need to save the money for a deposit on our NEW family home.

Why do some people only read what they want to read? It does give me an inkling of the kind of grilling the LA could give us, should they choose. I think it's better all round if we burn the owned house to the ground, just to be safe.

The god's honest truth: my h wanted to move, I didn't want to commit to financially stretch us at the time. So we compromised and started making our current home nicer. There'd be a point where we had reached the point of no return - we'd have spent our savings on the current house and fully committed to living there. This point hasn't been reached. The renovations we've done to date make it rentable/sellable - and even then it still needs a bit more. It was a state. I don't want to sell it as I want to be able to give my son a hand up. It's not really a family home - it's a starter home. I'm attached to it for lots of reasons. Doesn't mean I want to live in it until I die. I'm just proud that I was able to hang on to it when money was vile. We need somewhere bigger - the lounge isn't big enough for us all to sit in. The plan was to extend to get around this in the short-term, and wait a few years to move (I get a bonus every year - more bonuses = smaller mortgage). But now we'll have to get a bigger mortgage. I'll sort one that I can chip lump sums off. I'm just a worrier when it comes to big debts. Would rather have applied for a smaller one. Now I can't.

ALL I wanted to know is how I can prove to the LA that the rental property isn't and won't be our home ever again.

It sounds like I might not be able to and I might have to sell the house. If this is what we have to do, we will. Thanks for all the personal experience stories.

OP posts:
TeenTimesTwo · 21/07/2018 19:26

stressed The rules are generally that you have to have sold your family home. You don't get to own one 5 miles away and rent one on the doorstep to the school. Otherwise it is unfair to real catchment children who can't afford to own & rent. You have to 'commit' to the area.

TeenTimesTwo · 21/07/2018 19:23

LA refused and won’t accept applicants outside of the postcode boundary.

The LA can't refuse applications (though they may be too far down the admission criteria to get a place).
You can apply and appeal if you miss out. You 'just' have to show the disadvantage to your child is greater than the disadvantage to the school.

stressedtiredbuthappy · 21/07/2018 19:07

I'm following with interest as I'm planning to let my house and rent within catchment for a primary school place. I'm outskirts of Greater Manchester, not highly sort after Trafford!)
How on earth can the previous 3 years council tax records be used?
If people are genuinely moving that's ridiculous?!

Starlight345 · 21/07/2018 19:07

You are only moving months before admissions to a rental property .

You have a home so you are essentially trying to buy your ds’s place .

I also don’t buy you did it up so don’t want to sell .

I don’t know the ins and outs of the system but I am sure you will be returning to your renovated house

Walkingdeadfangirl · 21/07/2018 18:57

CauliflowerBalt As posters have said your intentions are irrelevant. Had your timing been different you would be fine but you have said you intend to keep your family home and rent in catchment at the time of applying for the school you want. That is against the rules and called cheating.

Because 'genuine' people do that and then have a 'genuine' change of mind and 6 months later move back into the original family home. Be careful as when you get caught your DC could be pulled out of school and you will have to go to the only school in the area with free spaces (and they are usually the worse schools).

Armchairanarchist · 21/07/2018 18:54

I know a family that did this and were so angry their DS wasn't allocated a place. After years of having the same catchment area for said school, it was much smaller this year as it was hugely oversubscribed and they'd moved to just outside the new boundary.

titchy · 21/07/2018 18:51

Count Duck, I honestly disagree with you. We’d be cheating if we ever intended to move back to the house. Ever.

It doesn't really matter what your plans are tbh. What matters is how your LA will see it.

Original poster
CauliflowerBalti · 21/07/2018 18:35

No, I intend to rent out the house that is currently my family home, and find a new family home. If it wasn’t the busiest time of year at work I would attempt to do this without renting myself as packing and moving stinks.

OP posts:
Walkingdeadfangirl · 21/07/2018 18:27

Your intentions are irrelevant. You are planing on keeping and renting out your family home and moving into a rental in catchment for the school. Its blatantly against the rules aka cheating.

If you wanted to follow the rules you should have sold your family home and moved into catchment as per the rules.

egdehsdrawkcab · 21/07/2018 18:26

I don't think you can keep the house if you want them to take your case seriously.....

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