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Original poster

End of year reminder: Flightpaths are bollocks, schools giving ‘working at’ 9-1 GCSE grades to KS3 kids are bullshitting

132 replies

noblegiraffe · 14/07/2018 11:56

Basically that.

If your kid comes home with a report with a wanky flightpath on it, take it with a hefty pinch of salt. There’s no science or data behind it.

If your KS3 kid comes home with a report that says they are currently working at a GCSE grade 4 in Science (or worse a 4+, implying technical accuracy), then know that it is made up, no one knows what a grade 4 in science (or any subject really) looks like, and applying GCSE grades to kids who aren’t studying GCSE courses is just nonsense.

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/07/2018 11:39

NOT equivalent to GCSE grades.

Oh dear god how confusing is that? She’s on a grade 6 which sounds like a GCSE grade 6 but isn’t a GCSE grade 6, it’s a different grade 6. Actually at GCSE we expect her to fail/get a grade 9, but you won’t have a clue because our internal system sounds like she’s a middling student.

OP posts:
maz99 · 15/07/2018 11:36

Noble, the grades are expressed as internal 9-1 grades, and the school have clearly stated these are NOT equivalent to GCSE grades.

AgentHannahWells · 15/07/2018 11:35

What annoys me is that there is a fixed group of kids in DS school who are targeted for going to a top uni and get taken on trips, extra activities etc to encourage this. All based on sats or Y7 cats 'predicting' GCSE grades. Now at the end of Y8 my DS wishes he was in that group as he gets same scores on class tests etc, but tough shit kiddo they chose the group in Y7. He'd really benefit from it as neither me nor his dad went to uni. So it feels like his report means Jack shit anyway because his path has already been set.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/07/2018 11:34

My DD is getting 70%+ in most of her maths & science assessments, that tells me that she is quite capable in those subjects and deserves the grade 6/7 that I was told in January at parents evening she was on target for at the end of the year.

No no no! I could design a maths assessment that a student who was on target to fail GCSE could get 70%+ in. That result means nothing in the context of GCSE grades or how capable your DD is at those subjects.
Your being told that your DD is working at a grade 6/7 in Y8 is exactly the sort of nonsense I’m talking about in this thread.

OP posts:
maz99 · 15/07/2018 11:31

Clairetree1, a target and current grade for the current year.

I don’t understand why anyone would expect or even want a prediction of GCSE grades for year 7/8 child... a lot can change in that time.

My DD is getting 70%+ in most of her maths & science assessments, that tells me that she is quite capable in those subjects and deserves the grade 6/7 that I was told in January at parents evening she was on target for at the end of the year.

But it doesn’t make me think that she is going to get those grades at GCSE.

I see the grade on her report as the grade of her achievements during the year.

AlexanderHamilton · 15/07/2018 11:27

We don’t get working at grades at all in Year 9. The school has started the GCSE curriculum. We get a behaviour grade & an on track for grade which the explanatory notes say it’s the teachers professional opinion based on how the child is working at the moment.

Hence why I’m very worried about English.

Clairetree1 · 15/07/2018 11:25

the target grade is the expected minimum progress at the end of the year based on KS2 results. Ks2 results predict final GCSEs, no anything in between, no end of year grades, just end of year 11 grades

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/07/2018 11:22

What I mean, maz is how is that grade expressed? As a GCSE grade, or as some number/letter system made up by the school?

It’s all nonsense anyway. Minimum expected progress based on KS2 results that have only been around for 2 years? You can’t measure progress.

OP posts:
maz99 · 15/07/2018 11:16

Noble, the target grade is the expected minimum progress at the end of the year based on KS2 results. The current grade is a current ‘working at’ level, based on in year work and assessments.

TeenTimesTwo · 15/07/2018 11:16

DD's school has adapted the old NC levels, and renamed them, and then translates to a 'flightpath' grade range e.g. 4-5. I'm pretty happy with that. I understand they're not predictions but they give an idea - on track to fail, on track to probably pass, on track to do well.

I feel they have a good idea of the skills needed to do well at GCSE, and if they can see the skills developing they can use it as a judge. I quite agree though that exact GCSE grades or worse the 5+ / 6- level of accuracy is just daft.

Mind you, if French predicts a pass this year, I might lose all faith. Grin

Clairetree1 · 15/07/2018 11:08

So in everyones opinion what level in the gcse scale should a year 7 realistically be at

they are not on the GCSE scales, they are not studying GCSE - they reports are predictions and targets, for when they do start the GCSE.

For example, pregnancy is not on the GCSE specification, so a year 7 student studying pregnancy and child birth cannot show understanding to GCSE level, full stop. However, the teacher can use their understanding to predict how well they will understand more complicated biology later, but not to with any accuracy.

For example, they might understand biology in general well enough to be predicted an average grade of between 3-6, but that is about it.

the detailed grades, 4+ etc are most likely target grades based on SATS, they are derived from a formula, and once the SATS are done in KS2, these targets don't change

Clairetree1 · 15/07/2018 11:02

I have one year 7 child I can confidently predict 8-9 for, and several I can confidently predict below a 3 for, that's about it, really

Clairetree1 · 15/07/2018 11:01

What’s wrong with providing a target & current grade, and a grade for effort?

but target and current grade of what? if not of GCSE? There are no other grades, all the KS1/2/3 levels have gone

Blueemeraldagain · 15/07/2018 10:57

The whole “reporting” system is a mess. I work in a small SEMH school and the teachers KS3 are using two or three different methods of reporting (old NC levels (I use these for English), age related levels (very depressing for students with SEN) and GCSE grades). We have a lot of outside agencies involved with our students. Social Services etc still ask for National curriculum levels on all their reports.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/07/2018 10:56

Choc a Y7 can’t be measured on the GCSE scale because they are studying the KS3 curriculum, not the GCSE curriculum, and are 4 years away from their GCSEs.

I know you’re trying to make your school report make sense but it just doesn’t. It’s made up. It’s not accurate.

OP posts:
Chocdrop01 · 15/07/2018 10:53

So in everyones opinion what level in the gcse scale should a year 7 realistically be at

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/07/2018 10:51

Maz if your Y8’s target and current grade aren’t GCSE grades, then what are they?

OP posts:
maz99 · 15/07/2018 10:48

My DD is in year 8, and there is no mention of GCSE level grades on her previous report card. I don’t understand why schools are adding predicted GCSE grades to report cards for KS3 students.

What’s wrong with providing a target & current grade, and a grade for effort? This is what my DD’s school does.

Chosenone · 15/07/2018 10:31

Teacher here too. I just hate this system. My school use the GCSE grades from year 7 which confuses parents as they think if they're on a 5 or 6 now then surely they'll be a 9 by year 11! My DS school use a bizarre system of counting up with 1.2. 2.2 and 3.2 leading to a GCSE grade.
I have new students who have been in my class 4 times and was told to give them a grade using my 'gut instinct ffs

BowlerHattie · 15/07/2018 10:24

Thanks Noble, I'm trying, she knows that we support her and don't put pressure on at home. Unfortunately school did the same 2 years ago with DD1 and I listened when they said she was over sensitive.. I'm now realising its them not us. Sad

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/07/2018 10:20

Bowler that’s awful. Can you complain to the school about their bullshit system? At least complain about the bawling out. Schools need to be very mindful of the mental health of their GCSE students - it’s such a tough two years for them.

In the meantime make sure your DD knows that the system is the problem, not her.

OP posts:
bowlerhattie · 15/07/2018 10:15

My yr 10 DD is struggling at the moment, as the top of their flight path is no longer referred to as a target, but a MEG or Minimum Expected Grade. She was recently distraught to be told by one science teacher she had failed her year 10 science exam and science teacher 2 was preparing to bawl them out next day... which she did, for 30 minutes before handing the marked exam papers out.

DD had got a 6. Her MEG for the end of next year is a 7, so apparently this was a fail, as she should be achieving her Minimum now in order to exceed it.

I worry that mentally she's not going to make it through to the end of year 11 Sad

ReadingRiot · 15/07/2018 10:15

DS scored 2 for English at the end of year 9 and now in year 10 is predicted 7

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 15/07/2018 10:13

I’ve just done Y7 reports. I’ve had to look at my class target grades for GCSE and decide whether they are on track to meet them or not. ‘Is this the kind of kid who is going to get a grade 6 at GCSE?’.

I’m an experienced teacher, maths has already had one run-through of the new GCSE so we have a set of exam results. I can tell you that I absolutely cannot distinguish, in Y7 between a kid who is on track for a grade 6 and one that is going to get a 5 or a 7 - so one who will get a good pass and one who will possibly go onto A-level. We set in maths so we already have a reasonable idea of where they fall in the cohort from which group they’re in, i.e. set 2s are generally headed in the 5-7 direction. But there is overlap in the sets and sets can change and the perception of where that child is headed will depend on whether they are set 2 or 3 even though that child’s ability hasn’t changed. And a lot can happen in 4 years.

OP posts:
Floottoot · 15/07/2018 09:53

That 'kind' of student is what I meant, Noble. Isn't it similar to the idea of "value added"/progress 8? So, assess in year 7, reassess in year 11, show any improvement on predictions.

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