End of year reminder: Flightpaths are bollocks, schools giving ‘working at’ 9-1 GCSE grades to KS3 kids are bullshitting

My DD has just finished year 9 and her report is a load of crap! I’m a teacher myself and I can see the school don’t have a clue what they are doing!

DD is dyslexic and although the primary school were fully aware of this and had beenbiven all the detailed reports to support it. They failed however to apply for any special considerations so DD didnt get the extra time she is entitled to. Secondary school have done their assessments and she gets 25 extra time, a reader ( is a computer) and she uses a computer in lessons and in exams. We have also been paying for outside specialist support and she has made huge, huge progress in the time since leaving her primary school.

Despite all of this her school only use Fisher family trust data to predict year 11 grades. Dad got 4 in English and Maths sets and somehow has a whole set of predicted grades all at level 3. This includes art, design and PE! It makes me sooooooo cross that they will not look at her actual work since joining the school.

Be use she is obviously hitting extractions to get 3’s (and a above!) the school could not care less. We get no info with regard to how she is actually doing, what tbe tutor could give extra support in, absolutely nothing! Her KS report simply said on track for end of year 11 levels - not remotely helpful!!!

This is an Ofsted outstanding school
apparently. So basically I know she is working above her predicted levels but by how much? Who knows as school
Will not communicate anything!!!!!

Well said Noble. In my subject, the first cohort has just taken the new specification GCSE. Results will be out in August. I need to give out current and target grades but my subject covers 3 distinct strands and students can be amazing at one but really poor at the other 2. In all likelihood, those who are good at all 3 will get the highest grades, but until August, I cannot be sure what a grade 9, 7, 5 or 3 looks like. To expect me to use those grades at KS3 is nonsense and thankfully we don't have to do it. It is bad enough at Y9 when they are on the GCSE courses and we are expected to guess...

So pleased to read this and know that I am not a lone voice in the wilderness.

Very experienced teacher and marker. Still would say my 'predictions' and working ats are, at best, slightly informed guesswork. But can I get the deputy head to see that? Can I balls.

TheFrendo, I hope so... she does enjoy maths - she will easily pick up pages of maths homework and just do it.

Whereas with her weaker subjects, the ones she doesn’t enjoy the same way - she is not motivated to the do the work to the same standard.

Noble, she doesn’t consistently get high scores/marks in the exams for these subjects.

Well said, OP. It's all nonsense...and I'm a secondary science teacher!

Near top of the year group means different things in different schools

I never said it meant anything...

It’s a factual statement from the teacher from the teacher in that school - I don’t put any value on it.

Well, if she can maintain her position in the top half of the top maths set in a cohort of 405, she should do very well at GCSE.

There is a lot of new maths ground to cover over the next three years.

Noble, I didn’t compare them in that way - I looked at the non GCSE grades on her report card and saw that they were her weakest subjects. And I used that at parents evening to discuss with the History & Geography teachers to find out which one would be less problematic for my DD at GCSE who doesn’t enjoy creative, essay type writing.

It was helpful to have that discussion, because my DD was going to choose modern history but the history teacher advised her to choose geography instead - more factual based writing required.

TheFrendo, my DD is in a top set maths class (of 25), and the scores in her class are spread. There are usually at least 2-3 students that get higher scores than my DD, and sometimes more. My DD considers herself to be exactly in the middle of the class and is very happy with that.

But her maths teacher has told me she is higher than that, and is actually closer to the top of the class.

He also told me that DD’s maths set are a very able group, and that they are the top performers in Maths for the whole cohort (of 405) in year 8. I was also told the same by the year 7 maths teacher last year.

Clairetree, what do you mean by “if you don’t know what she should’ve got...”

Isn’t the whole point of end of term exams in year 7 & 8 is to find out what the students are capable of?

I agree TeenTimesTwo, I am using the grades just as a means to show me where my DD is doing ok and where she is struggling.

We chose options back in March/April, and her grades helped me have targeted discussions with some of humanities teachers.

Where did all this obsession about targeting and grades start".

I have my school reports from Year 7 onwards (although it wasn't called that then). They have no grades at all - just things like "HPFA is working steadily" - meaning "can't remember who she is" and things like "has worked well but should speak up more in class"

The school only did O Levels so I guess that meant not having to make a decision about O Level/CSE but even so I never remember being advised about possible grades etc. At the last PE before the exams the Maths teacher told my Mum - "should definitely get the C - might get a B if the questions fall right" (I got a C) and that was it.

I don't idealise the 80s education - my feeling is that a bit more accountability was needed - but I wonder how we got from the one extreme to the other?

I do find it useful to know whether the school thinks DD is on track to pass or fail at any subject though. It enables me to do intervention at home on subjects, and enables us to start thinking about GCSE options ready for choosing in 6 months.

I disagree Clairetree, it tells me that my DD is capable of the assessments that she is being given.

it doesn't really, if you don't know what she should have got in those assessments

I disagree Clairetree, it tells me that my DD is capable of the assessments that she is being given.

Whether the assessments are actually testing anything valid, well that’s down to the teacher/school.

I know in my DD’s last exam week, she was given GCSE level questions in English and maths. When her class got their maths results back, they were gutted because most of them got less than 10 marks.

All I can say, is that I see no value in being given a GCSE prediction in year 8. A lot can change between now and then.

I’m more interested in my DD enjoying learning all her subjects & participating in class, and her marks & grades showing that she is continually improving.

That would seem to be the sensible option Perspicacia.

Design your curriculum got each year group, figure out what the key things that you want them to know/be able to do are and then assess against that. There's no need to confuse the issue with numbers or letters.

Where is the rest of the class? If most are getting high marks then the tests are too easy

not necessarily, if it is to check learning and memory of facts, then 40 is what is expected, and 35 is way too low. if I've set factually learning as homework, and assess that as a test, 35 may well be the level at which i set a detention because hw has not been done.

if a student is consistently getting 35 out of 40 questions correct on all assessments, what does that tell you?

Where is the rest of the class? If most are getting high marks then the tests are too easy.

‘Not equivalent to GCSE’ tells me this is DD’s current level and understanding.
She could stay the same, improve or even drop down by the time she gets to GCSEs.

I don’t find this difficult to understand - possibly because my secondary education was outside of the UK and didn’t GCSEs. At the end of each academic year we were given a final grade in each subject, which was an aggregate of all grades we had received for coursework/exams (each with different weighting).

if a student is consistently getting 35 out of 40 questions correct on all assessments, what does that tell you?

it tells you absolutely nothing at all, as a parent. It presumably tells the teacher where the student's strengths and weaknesses are. But it could be a test that everyone is expected to get 39 or 40 on, and 35 could be a major weakness, or it could be a test using GCSE questions in a class that hasn't studied GCSE, where 10/40 is seen as strong

My DD's y9 report just says whether she is working below, at, above or significantly above the expected level for pupils at her school. The school does have very high expectations of its pupils but so far no mention has been made of grades or target grades. I'm not sure if reporting will change as she moves into y10.

Noble, if a student is consistently getting 35 out of 40 questions correct on all assessments, what does that tell you?

If those results don’t count for anything, then why even do them?