End of year reminder: Flightpaths are bollocks, schools giving ‘working at’ 9-1 GCSE grades to KS3 kids are bullshitting

I agree, Hellohah. Dd is at a similar school. Predictions cannot be made based on the pupil's performance in one particular school.

Sorry, TeenTimesTwo, I'm sure it's me, but I don't really understand what you are saying!

DS is year 8 in a school that has struggled historically with GCSE grades. I think last year they had 3 x grade 9's in total. That is out of 160 pupils. I don't know if that is normal - but to me, it seems pretty low. 3 grade 9's out of a possible 480.
26% achieving Grade 5 or above in English and Maths.
I know from his reports/parents evenings that he in the top 3 achievers in all his subjects for his year group apart from Art and IT. But that's just at his school (which is pretty low achieving). So where is he in relation to every other child in every other school? We don't know because teachers don't have this information and it would be ridiculous to expect them to have it. Therefore it's unfair for them to predict a grade.
I would prefer to know his strengths/weakness in relation to that subject, whether he enjoys it, if he can improve, and what he could do to improve. All I want is for him to be happy that he has tried his best and done as well as he can, whether that means his best is a 3, a 5, an 8 or whatever.

So Irma. If your DC needs say an average of 6s for their 6th form, and 7s in maths and science to be allowed to do science A levels, and their end y10 exams were
87%, 75%, 70%, 65%, 65%, 65%, 60%, 51%, …
Would you be think 'oh good, well on track to stay at school' or 'OK, school 6th form definitely looking a long shot'?

A raw exam mark is surely better than grades.

Dd got 94% in the end of year 10 Maths exam. She got a predicted Level 7, as the teachers said that those achieving 9s and 8s will be getting in the high 90s.

I think I understand the bell curve marking, but in an extreme case you could potentially be getting a Level 1 with 80%...

x-post with noble . Yes I could go with noble's idea (as it seems similar to mine).

For core subjects as a p[aren't I want to know do I need to do solid intervention at home (eg work in the summer holidays, pay for a tutor). For 'options' subjects I need to know whether subjects are likely for success or not if selected. Even knowing Foundation/Intermediate/Highers better than nothing. (And that is better terminology than my suggestion).

Rafals It's fine, I don't need or expect accurate.
And if my DD is borderline, that's good to know too.

But even to be told: Struggling (Grade 1-4), Borderline (Grade3-6), Good (Grade 5-9) is better (for me) than vague words with no context. I find it hard to believe an experienced teacher can't make a stab at that.

I’m not sure a guess from a teacher will tell you that either. Especially for pupils around the borderline. And for everything except English and maths there is no set of results to compare it against.

I’m not sure most teachers could give you an accurate guess for which side of the ‘good’ pass borderline a fair number of their year 11s fall this year. Making an accurate prediction for ks3 pupils is a whole other level of inaccurate.

DS's report just states grade for attainment (outstanding, excellent, good, requires improvement, serious cause for concern. Good is minimum acceptable standard) and grade for effort with 5 the top and 1 bottom - 3 is acceptable standard. there is also target section which either suggests pre-reading or work on areas which require improvement

Without having some clue in KS3, how are we meant to help pick GCSE options? I know enjoyment comes into it, but likelihood of success does too.

Maisy I think I could reasonably tell you where I think my y7s will be by y11, but it is no more than educated guesswork based on my knowledge of their work and their dispositions as learners

To be honest, I think that is what a lot of parents want. I know I do. You teachers might feel you are clueless on this, but I don't buy it. You have a lot of experience of a lot of kids. Your guess is going to be way better than any parent's guess. We as parents want your guesses. Even with the new GCSEs your stab is going to be way better than mine.

What they are the able to do well. What do they need to continue developing in order to make progress. Those 2 pieces of information are all that really matters.

I agree this is important for the teacher and the student. And it is important for 'hands on parents'. But a lot (the majority?) seem to be hands off by secondary school judging from these threads. Also, personally I can find this information by looking at DDs tests / assessments / books. But I can't judge whether she is looking like she'll get over the finishing line to a GCSE pass (or high grade).

Haven't read the whole thread but I can honestly say that I have found every grading on every report I received in secondary soooo confusing.

At one parents evening I asked a teacher why, if DS had done so well, his grade was lower than on the last report and he said he had no idea. If even teachers can't understand them how can parents or children.

I looked back at my report from the equivalent year 30+ years ago - it just gave an exam result, class position and said "good".

Told me all I needed to know really. I feel sorry for teachers grappling with the huge amount of work needed to produce the reports we get now which are v confusing.

Brilliant thread noble.

Thankfully my school hasn't gone down this route of pseudo grades at ks3.

So just to clarify, whatdoall the teachers here think should go onto reports in KS3?
What are the able to do well.
What do they need to continue developing in order to make progress.

Those 2 pieces of information are all that really matters.

I have some y7s who are writing essays on texts that would 'get a 6' on the GCSE marl scheme based on qualitt. But it's not a grade 6 at gcse because the assessment conditions aren't the same, I don't make them do closed book exams etc.
Don't get me wrong, could I drill a y7 student in how to answer gsce papers? Probably. Is that the same as actually teaching them? No.

All test scores tell you is how a chils performed on a test written by a teacher. Timmy is one of the 'lower' groups in my school but would be middle or higher at another local school. Any teacher at another school who thought 'Timmy got 39/40 on our tesr and is top of the year group so must be a grade 7 student' would be talking nonsense.

I think I could reasonably tell you where I think my y7s will be by y11, but it is no more than educated guesswork based on my knowledge of their work and their dispositions as learners.

Wow - My son’s school seems to be pretty sensible.

KS3 reports have an effort grade, an assessment % (even for PE!), the year average %, a general comment on what they have learnt and how they were assessed and a brief personalised comment mainly concentrating on what they can do to improve.

No GCSE predictions until KS4 and even then no predictions higher than an 8.

Noble - ds’s previous school (selective)used to report the year median result.

AQA Malbec (Clock & Beatles). Ds’s previous school did Edexel with their trillion different set works but he moved after a Year 8)

Both are singers first study. I know dh who is a vocal coach & teaches degree courses despairs over the marking criteria as what is deemed to be an easier piece according to GCSE criteria can actually be very difficult in terms of actual vocal technique.

Sounds like a good idea noblegiraffe

Well spotted Alexander! Guilty as charged.

It depends on the exam board. I have a y11 who passed grade 8 with merit in year 7. They played grade 5 pieces for their performances and we gave them full marks BUT the mark scheme for GCSE is not the same as for music exams. We have actively discouraged them from performing more difficult repertoire because there is so much more scope for losing marks than playing something they are completely at ease with.

We only have 2 set works, but there is a lot of wider listening styles to cover. I would focus on making connections between music they play (in lessons, ensembles) or hear and the set works/styles. The faster they can do that, the better they seem to get on.

I'm a Luddite. When I first started all reports were in words and were written out by hand....

Even ticking a list of statements would be more meaningful than a sodding flight path

If it were up to me, reports would detail what a child can and can't do.

Do you mean actual words ?

Wouldn't that be astronomically time consuming?

I am SLT but not in charge of data.

If it were up to me, reports would detail what a child can and can't do. I might include percentage or numerical scores on a well designed test. But predicting is getting less and less reliable. It's quite scary - I used to be able to look at a class and tell you who was going to get a C, and now I haven't a bleeding clue!

Malbec - your subject sounds very like music. Ds has been predicted Grade 8 but I know he hasn’t yet covered composition.

Dd on the other hand is amazing at composition and we were told she was producing GCSE standard work in Year 7/8. But her set works knowledge was a lot more sketchy so who knows what she’ll get come August.

Sorry that post is full of typos - I’m still so cross I can’t keep calm when I talk about it.

So just to clarify, what do all the teachers here think should go onto reports in KS3?
And what strangely happens when teachers are promoted to SLT that means schools don't provide it?