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Original poster

Heartbroken daughter - doesn't want school I appealed for

44 replies

practicalnomad · 27/06/2018 13:44

Sorry, this is longwinded

My daughter didn't get into the expected secondary (because the catchment shrank massively). We were allocated a school that didn't work for us, and chose another from the (very) short list of options available. We liked the sparky head, the facilities and the kindness of the school we chose from this short list, but it is RI and the results and progress scores are dreadful - also it's locked into an expensive PFI contract and the council has had to bail it out financially. Obviously we talked it up to DD because she needed to know we were OK with it - but there genuinely were some really good points and she was excited. We even bought the uniform.

I appealed for the local school and was exceptionally surprised to win (not as surprised as the council, but that's another story). She is heartbroken. I'd like her to try the school she now has on the basis that

a) it's the nearest
b) it is ofsted good on the cusp with outstanding
c) it gets good results
d) the curriculum offer is broader
e) it has great facilities and an interested parent body.
f) I really don't know anyone who is unhappy with it - it's a really solid local choice and often talked about on here as a great option.

She wants the other one because
a) it's co-ed
b) she feels it is nicer
c) there will be much less homework
d) she has got really excited about it
e) she doesn't actually want to go to the same school as the other girls in her class, who she doesn't love.

I've said go to the transition day for the school I've won the appeal on, and then we'll talk. But I feel like a witch - she's so sad and says she feels her opinions don't matter any more.

Am I being unfair? Who should choose. She's ten, by the way, if that sways people - but she's also quite mature.

OP posts:
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Echobelly · 13/07/2018 12:09

How strongly does she feel about the co-ed thing? I think that's quite important.

I never wanted to go to a girls' school and think I would have had an awful time at one. DD feels the same, so we are not putting down any girls' schools for her, as I also suspect she would be much happier at a co-ed.

balljuggla · 11/07/2018 23:51

I went to an independent secondary school. Of the three I was offered places for, my parents chose the one I really didn't like! But it was the best choice; they could see a long term view that 10 year old me couldn't possibly have done. Sounds like you're in a similar situation, and at the end of the day you know which is best in the long run.

PeggySchuylar · 11/07/2018 22:39

Well done for holding your nerve and we’ll done to your DD for being able to be open to a change of plan.

Original poster
practicalnomad · 11/07/2018 15:41

Just to put an update on here, dd went to the transition day at the girls school and it was 'OK'. She was still a bit grumpy about it, and we told her to relax because she was too young to be taking responsibility for school choice. Held our nerve...

Today I took her for the admissions interview at the girls' school - which was helpfully in its amazing library, and very calm. On the way home DD uttered the words "I know I was grumpy, but you know, I am really glad I got this school place. Thank you mum."

Wish I had recorded it for future (no doubt tougher) times - but for now, I think that's a good resolution.

Thanks all for helping me.

OP posts:
Bipbopbee · 29/06/2018 14:32

You sound lovely op.
I hope the transition day goes well and DD ends up happy in the final decision Star

SirVixofVixHall · 29/06/2018 14:29

I went to an all girls school, and I really wish I had that option for my dds. There is so much pressure to look nice to attract the boys’ attention. The boys can be really disruptive at times, particularly in years 7 and 8 when they are less mature than the girls. It seems to be calming down in year 9, thankfully.

Original poster
practicalnomad · 29/06/2018 10:46

You're all helping me so much. I'm really, really grateful. We've thought a lot this week - and are sending her to transition day at the girls' school next week.

RI school are coming in to her primary to see her anyway (not terribly helpful in many ways), along with the one other child going to this school from her primary. Although she isn't on their list (because you can't be on both)- she's the sort of child I'm sure they'd been keen to have back, if you see what I mean. I can't really say no to this, as we want to preserve the feeling it is a choice we make after transition day. And we will talk and keep hearing her opinions.

But we are pretty sure that she needs to start at the girls school and then we'll make sure she commits to it and gives it the proper chance. She really is very mature. I took her out for a 'mummy date' last night and gave her lots of love and affirmation and she has started talking more positively about the girls' school again. All of which is good.

I have been careful not to guilt trip her - we have told her it is OK for her to feel disappointed, disenfranchised and angry with us - and OK to show it - but in the end we are responsible for her welfare and wellbeing growing up - and sometimes that means hard decisions that we don't really want to have to make.

I should add I'm pretty sure the girls' school is the better choice for her sister (two years behind) which is also influencing my decision a little - sibling place? But we are very open to making sure DD has the right education for her and she must never feel we 've done this for her sister.

So tricky.

I have taken every one of your comments on board. Thanks wise people of MN.

OP posts:
Johnnycomelately1 · 29/06/2018 00:33

I'd insist on starting at the girls' schools because you can switch to the mixed school but you can's switch the other way. There will be problematic groups of students at both schools, so fixating on not wanting to move with certain students from her current school isn't reason enough. There's bound to be an equivalent group going to the mixed school.

There's a lot to be said for going to a school which is "first choice" for all its pupils.

wombatron · 29/06/2018 00:25

Possibly not that helpful, but I wanted a school for year 12 and 13 based on similar reasons to your DD. My parents overruled me and sent me to the 6th form of the school I'd done y7-y11 in for similar reasons you have. I must say in hindsight their decision was the right one. They had no other reasons other than 'this one was better', similar to yours. I don't believe I'd have been as progressive in my career as what I am had if not been for that decision they made. Good luck. It won't be popular at first but she may thank you later

BakedBeans47 · 29/06/2018 00:23

She’s 10. It’s your duty to make the decision for her.

Michaelahpurple · 29/06/2018 00:21

Really agree with post by Sunday[something]. And I feel for you. We have chosen not to send our 12 year old to the school he wants in year 9 and it is making me sick with anxiety. He is terribly upset but I think the one he wants would not be right for him - I wish we had never got a place for him in the first place, but the process had to be started 4 years before going so it was hard to know.

The fact that you can change in one direction and not the other is compelling. Is she mature e Pugh to take the line Sunday suggests - to be open about the marketing you did and that she should give the other one a chance at the same selling process?

SirVixofVixHall · 28/06/2018 19:31

I would pick the all girls school. Especially as you’ve said she can be placed away from the problematic girls . I see it is really tough, but she is only just about to turn 11, the shift can be so daunting ( my recently 11 dd is dreading high school ) and so things like less homework can seem very enticing. You are an adult and so you are best placed to make a reasonable choice. Also if she really loathes it then she will be able to move to the other.

BubblesBuddy · 28/06/2018 19:22

It is just ridiculous to say that girls bitch all the time. Girls can be hugely supportive of each other and often do very well without boys around. No up skirting for a start! Less swearing too. Less poor behaviour.

It is also very likely there will be unsavoury types in the school DD wants. Many “nice” children have passed it by. The ones who go there might not be universally kind and wonderful. What are their exclusion rates? RI frequently means they are not dealing with disruptive pupils effectively. Rather than loving the drama, I might be more worried about their ability to turn it round rather than be swayed by a fast talking head. He’s there to get you to choose it and say the right things. He has to walk and walk and your DD will be who they are experimenting on. Believe me, this is what they will have to do and not all their teachers will be on board or capable. Just talking about change and ambition is the easy bit.

She will leave primary friends in her wake at the single sex school. Many do because there are so many more girls to choose from. Probably more than where she wants to go if it’s co-ed. I don’t think her reasons are very valid and she’s 10. She cannot understand all the implications.

Bail out after a year if it doesn’t work out. The RI school will still have places.

AveABanana · 28/06/2018 14:33

I think you need to big up your preferred school, but also point out that she can move to mixed school from all girls but not the other way. So she can try the girls school and will always have the other one as back up, whereas the choice is removed with the other option.

SundayGirls · 28/06/2018 14:27

Coats - but in this case the OP strongly highlighted the positives (had to, under the circumstances) and hasn’t had chance to do the same for the other school as they only had the one option then. It’s not like op could show both to the dd at the same time and asked her to choose, and now she’s going against dd’s choice because she doesn’t like it.

Basically op now has the tough job of picking between the two for the good of DD who can’t see the whole picture as she’s not had chance to consider school 2 before and now doesn’t want to because she’s been so sold on school 1.

OP, would it be an option to say school 2 and if she doesn’t like it to see about transferring to school 1 the following year?

CoatsProtectionLeague · 28/06/2018 13:14

It’s a no-brainer for me-go with her choice.

I let mine all choose.

There’s not one happy child I know who was “forced” to go with their parents’ choice of school.

Of course she could end up loving your appealed for school but if she finds it hard to settle or hates it- you are to blame.

Bobbybobbins · 28/06/2018 13:00

I would personally choose for her and go for the school you want. Sounds like it would be straightforward to review at the end of year 7 and move her then if she hadn't settled?

Noqont · 28/06/2018 12:41

Much better to have a fresh start if possible.

This is so true, especially if the child is saying they don't want to go with old friends. A new school is a chance to reinvent themselves without all that baggage from before. A chance to be a happier and more confident version of themselves.

runningkeenster · 28/06/2018 12:28

she doesn't actually want to go to the same school as the other girls in her class, who she doesn't love

This would be the clincher for me. Please listen to her.
It's not great when your child takes all the baggage from primary school to secondary school with them (and the parents too). Much better to have a fresh start if possible.

Even more so if it's an all girls' school. Nests of bitchiness.

Original poster
practicalnomad · 28/06/2018 10:01

Yes - school we appealed for would have been where she would have gone initially - the other school wasn't even on our list, was just better than the one she was allocated (which truly was a bad fit).

OP posts:
SD1978 · 28/06/2018 09:48

The school you appealed for- is it the one she would have gone to initially? Would she have been given any choice, or did the choice only occur because they changed the catchment. If this would have been the o my choice, then I don’t thi k that she should get the swaying vote.

SundayGirls · 28/06/2018 09:44

Be honest with her. Tell her that when the RI school was the only option, of course there were good things about it which you were going to point out - but that was before you had the option of the other school so it wasn't possible to talk about all the good things about the second school as there wasn't a place for her then.

Don't feel bad, it's the picture that's changed, not you. As a parent you go about doing the best you can for your DCs and that includes fostering a positive attitude about the only option there was at the time. Tell her you understand she's got her head around going to the RI school but she needs to dig deep again and look to see the new second option with fresh eyes, as there are benefits to that school which the first school doesn't have. Also tell her there's no one single perfect option, the RI will not be perfect in all ways.

Original poster
practicalnomad · 28/06/2018 09:34

Actually, she's not even eleven for two weeks (those pesky summer borns)... I've told her we will take her opinions into account after transition and will try and get to the girls school before transition day - however it is next Tuesday which is a big ask on the teachers - who are up to their ears in end of term stuff.

Thanks so much for all the advice. We did all really like the other school - it's a real underdog locally - almost next to one with a tiny catchment, feeder primaries and a great local reputation so that it almost has a 'secondary modern' reputation as the one the 'non-academic' kids go to. It's also in a (umm) 'vibrant' area - which we love, but I can't deny it's gritty. It is out of special measures, but has been in twice in recent years, so no steady trajectory. Twenty minutes by bus.

However, it has great drama, small classes (due to the funding issues it has a special deal with the council) and a head who I liked more than any other I've met. He treated dd like an individual - which he had the luxury of doing because the school wasn't mobbed when we went round, and I'm sure that rubbed off. We liked the ethos, fab extra curriculars (unusual in a school in its position I think) and the sensible uniform, unlike the girls' school which has gone full on 'pretend we're a private school' with its clothing in recent years. It is a kind place and I think children thrive.

The girls school - which is only recently a school of choice for the chattering classes, is where we had always assumed she would go. I championed it constantly to friends who wanted to go out of borough while it was less popular and I've been there to do career talks. It is very feminist, in a very good way. It serves its community - only selects on distance. It's not an academy. Just a good, solid LA success story really.

It's only recently that the catchment has shrunk like this - because it is now very shiny after a refurbishment, which fortunately hasn't left it with the burden of debt that the mixed school has. It has an amazing curriculum - offers Latin and three other languages (as opposed to just one) and triple science. Results are good too. Those who used to choose private, or selective places elsewhere, now choose it.

But it is also a kind school - has a great reputation for pastoral care. It should be an absolutely obvious decision. I'm not sure why it isn't. Cognitive dissonance, perhaps.

OP posts:
dinosaurkisses · 28/06/2018 01:35

You make the call.

If you look at the reasons you bullet pointed in your OP, it’s obvious. Your dd will get a more varied education in a better school which is neither to home.

I wouldn’t undermine her opinions, but she is ELEVEN and the reasons she’s given for preferring the other school aren’t insurmountable. Of course she’s going to prefer having less homework!

Takethemdown · 28/06/2018 01:12

Decide for her.
I was in this situation at 11.
My Mum gave in and let me pick the school I wanted. It was not the right decision and I moved to the one she wanted in year nine by which time my confidence with learning was hammered.

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