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Possible impact (or damage?) of only doing Combined Science

58 replies

Kutik73 · 21/06/2018 10:35

I hope someone can help me understand the system in science study in this country...

DS is about to start his Year 7 at a school where they offer no Triple Science for GSCE/no Physics for A levels. They say;

'Chemistry, Biology and Physics topics are covered at KS3. At KS 4 all pupils study Combined Science resulting in one IGSCE, or Co-ordinated Science which results in two IGCSEs. Both courses are run by the Cambridge board and include units of Biology, Chemistry and Physics. There are three Science exams that need to be completed after the two years of IGCSE. At KS5 Biology and Chemistry A level course are offered. We follow the OCR Biology specification and the Edexcel Chemistry specification.'

I was told that allowing DS to study only Combined Science means throwing away his science option for A level. This may not be a problem if your strength lies in other subjects but DS is bright and very much a Maths/Science child and a Triple Science material. As DS loves the school and wants to go there so much he says he doesn't mind about it. But obviously he is still too young to know if it's a right path for him. He may find Physics fascinating...

DS has an option to leave the school after GCSE but having done only Combined Science, how hard it will be for him to consider Physics for A Level? Or, even before then, how hard for him to get a place at a decent sixth form college to study Physics?

Another question is, is it possible for him to prepare for Triple Science outside of school, such as using online resources or private tuition?

Any advice, experience, knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

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Kutik73 · 27/06/2018 15:01

Thanks Alexander. At the moment I strongly feel DS should do double science but it's because he seems to be a mathy/sciency child and he appears to be bright enough to handle even triple science. But this side of him may slow down in a couple of years time. He may decide to commit a lot more into music than academic. He may lose interests in the subjects he enjoys currently.... So I'll see how things go. Before this music school thing came in our path, I was so convinced science would be his thing that I feel very strange he may not do any science for his A level. But I think I have to adjust my own image/expectation on him and accept his change on course. Kids change and develop differently.

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AlexanderHamilton · 27/06/2018 14:17

Dd did a lot of self study by the way. She had some poor science teaching in Years 7-9 but then there was a staff change and things improved greatly. She used Tassomai which is a paid for app but you can start it in either KS3 or KS4. She also had CGP textbooks and revision guides.

AlexanderHamilton · 27/06/2018 14:12

Hi Kutik - My dd has just finished Year 11 at an MDS (dance) school so a very similar set up.

If he wants to pursue science at A level then he must do the Combined Science that is equivalent to 2 GCSE's. My dd's school for the first time last year began offering single sciences and she chose that route. The only children who did the combined Single science were a couple who are not at all academic and in a "normal" school would be bottom sets. The school decided to forgo their progress figures in order to do the right thing for those children. However that does not sound at all the right thing for your child.

Double science will not be a problem if your ds wants to do science A levels as long as he is prepared to do some study over the summer holidays on the extra content.

Kutik73 · 25/06/2018 12:17

Thanks Bertrand and MadameChauchat. I feel so grateful with all the advice and sharing the information. I am so glad I started this thread. I now have a much better idea what to look at and prepare for the next few years. Again, thank you so much everyone for taking your precious time to write and share. Hope this thread can be of any help for others who may be in the same shoes as me.

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MadameChauchat · 25/06/2018 11:01

Hi Kutik, if he wants to keep all options open make sure he is allowed to take the same number of GCSE's as other schools, and that he does 2 science iGCSE's, not one.
I had the same worries as you about my yr 8 DS who is going to choose options next year. To be able to take as many different subjects as possible he will probably do 2 iGCSE's for science (at your school called co-ordinated science) instead of 3, because that frees up another option for him (they are allowed to take 9 iGCSE's only, plus an HPQ). The school says there is only a small problem with Chemistry, should he want to do Chemistry A-level, and he would need to do a bit of catching up over the summer preceding A-levels. Physics and biology should be fine. He would still be allowed to take chemistry A-level if his iGCSE-grades for science are good enough.
I also checked with the sixth form our local grammar which is very high performing and pretty selective; for any A-level science the criteria are: a 6 for a GCSE in the same science they want to do for A-level, OR two 7's for double science (co-ordinated science at your school). So, a boy who wants to study A-level physics at this grammar will be accepted if he got at least a 6 for a separate physics (i)GCSE or two 7's for the two combined science (i)GCSE's. The grammar does not distinguish between GCSE's and iGCSE's.
I agree with other posters: see how it goes, he can always change schools after year 8. I would probably worry more about how lack of a good physics teacher at the school could influence your son's love for physics, but that's a different matter! Well done to your DS for gaining a place at his school.

BertrandRussell · 25/06/2018 10:28

Loads of state school children only do double award science and go on to do science A levels It really isn't a problem, honestly. Presumably the school you're talking about want to make sure they free up as much time as possible for Music and know that not doing 3 sciences does not disadvantage anyone wanting to go on with science.

Kutik73 · 25/06/2018 10:18

It's much harder to switch once you start GCSE work so I would say it's an idea to review your options at the end of Y8
That's great advice, thanks Loose. And, yes I agree, I'll let DS enjoy music for now as that's the whole point of choosing this path.

cathyandclare, very encouraging. Thanks. Smile

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cathyandclare · 25/06/2018 08:45

DD's school only did double award IGCSEs, they had a significant number studying science or engineering at Imperial/Cambridge, medicine etc.

LooseAtTheSeams · 25/06/2018 08:35

Kutik iGCSE shouldn't be a problem as lots of the private schools do them. They are also being reformed in line with GCSE. You should probably wait and check again in a couple of years though when the dust has settled a bit!
I would imagine that for Years 7 and 8 the school will be covering the usual science topics and in smaller classes so he shouldn't be at a disadvantage. If at the end of Y8 he wants to switch back into mainstream state or private provision I doubt he'd be behind much and if he was he'd catch up in any case. It's much harder to switch once you start GCSE work so I would say it's an idea to review your options at the end of Y8 and let him enjoy music for now!
Incidentally, it is possible to combine music and physics at university - Imperial and Royal Holloway both do this so it wouldn't be a totally unusual A level for a musician to take!

Kutik73 · 24/06/2018 07:29

As my only child is still year 6, and I wasn't brought up in this country, I can't really understand the system of higher education clearly yet. Are iGCSE disadvantage over GCSE when applying for academically selective sixth form?

The specialist school DS is going has quite good results but not as good as some top independent schools understandably. Unless DS wants to study the subjects that are not offered at the school, the reason why we may move him in future would be because we like him to go to more academic focused school. But if iGCSEs are not sufficient to secure a place at such school then we have to be aware of the disadvantage...

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Kutik73 · 24/06/2018 07:10

LadyLance, didn't know Physics is unpopular. That makes sense that they don't offer Physics A Level especially at sixth form pretty much everyone is set their heart on music.

Clairetree1, yes I think that'll be our plan. DS's favourite science is chemistry so the lack of Physics may not be a problem after all. But he's done only primary school science so he doesn't know how fascinating Physics ca be yet. Knowing how mathematical he is, I just assume it may become his favourite subject in science. But it may not happen. Hopefully we'll know in a couple of years time and can switch school if needed.

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Clairetree1 · 23/06/2018 19:57

you need to just keep an eye on what is happening in the science - iGCSE isn't accepted on all A level course, because it can be completed without every entering a science lab.

It isn't going to affect him in year 7, 8 or 9 though - so you can always rethink a few years down the line, if the school offer hasn't changed

LadyLance · 23/06/2018 14:22

The lack of Physics A-level may well be due to lack of demand. It is the least popular science A-level, and it sounds like the school can only employ 2 full time science teachers (I may have misunderstood?). As they are a small school with a specialist focus that is not the sciences, it does sort of make sense that they would go for specialists in the other sciences which are more popular.

It isn't uncommon at normal sized schools both private and state to have 30-40 pupils wanting to study biology in Y12 (obviously split between 2 or more classes) and

Kutik73 · 22/06/2018 22:36

let him go to music school, love life, do double science and reevaluate in y10 as to what for sixth form
Yes, that's a plan for us. Thanks for your reassurance, Rosieposy4. I was hoping from the very beginning this way would work but probably wanted to see more 'green lights' from those in the knows...

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Rosieposy4 · 22/06/2018 22:16

Your lad must be a talented boy to get a place at a specialist music college.
I would make sure he does double/combined hwatever the new iGCSE name is for it. That will be more than sufficient preparation for A level if then choses to move away from music and do sciences at A level elsewhere.
I say that based on years of teaching A level sciences, we offer both triple and combined in my school, but take many from a school that only offers combined. The interested, keen and motivated have no isssues.
The school 3 of my dc have been to only offers double/combined. It hasn’t stopped my older dc doing engineering and medicine (at RG), and they get plenty of kids to Imperial, medicine, dentistry every year.
So I guess I would concentrate on the now, let him go to music school, love life, do double science and reevaluate in y10 as to what for sixth form.

Kutik73 · 22/06/2018 20:47

I found PickleNeedsAFriendInReading's post very comforting, thanks... DH really likes the school DS got a generous scholarship offer for their 11+ entry (but we turned down). They have 13+ entry, so that will be strong possibility if we feel DS should move back to mainstream school. He's got to keep up with his academic work though if he wants to keep the door open.

cricket Smile

marching, I am not quite sure why they don't offer Physics. It's quite surprising since musicians are often good at Maths and Physics. But it doesn't seem like it's due to the lack of teaching staff. It seems rather the choice the school made for some reasons... I know two pupils are leaving after GCSEs for Physics A Level.

As someone said earlier, those who stay to 6th form are pretty set on the specialism. If it happens to be DS's choice, we are fine for him to stay at the school and let him pursue his dream there. We just need to make sure sufficient support will be there at least until GCSEs.

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MarchingFrogs · 22/06/2018 19:38

Is it actually a published policy of the school not to teach to the 'separate sciences' IGCSE, or to offer only Biology and Chemistry, not Physics, at A level? Or is it just the current policy, driven by the lack of suitable / willing teaching staff. If current science teachers left, would the school deliberately not attempt to replace them with a more 'balanced' crew?

The year that DS1 was looking at sixth forms, one of our local comprehensives made the painful decision not to offer any of the pure sciences at A level, due to lack of demand, but it was just for that year.

cricketballs3 · 22/06/2018 10:29

Could be Business Studies for all you know

My degree is Business but given I also have a HND in electronic engineering has meant I've taught in the DT department very successfully

PickleNeedsAFriendInReading · 22/06/2018 09:00

Have you considered applying to other specialist schools, that might have more A-levels available?

But I suspect people are right and that children who stay to 6th form at a specialist school are pretty set on the specialism, and that he could move for 6th form if he wasn't sure.

Even moving for Year 10 is possible, if he was still strongly considering physics etc as an option and wanted to do triple science. He'd still have had 3 years of specialist training, and he could go back to a private (or even state) school at that stage and be fine, if he's reasonably bright. Or moving in Year 9, to a standard independent school that has a year 9 entry, and he'd not even be the new boy.

or at any point during the time there, he could consider switching to a different specialist school, with more academic options.

I suspect you'll know when/if he's not loving it any more, or is not happy socially, and he'll be on board for a move then if needed, which makes moving schools much easier. Right now, if this is what he wants, then he has at least a couple of year to give it a go without it closing off any options.

Kutik73 · 21/06/2018 23:37

cantkeepaway, thank you so much for the detailed information. Perhaps we have to accept no Science for DS if he chooses to go to this school. I feel it's not right. Then I heard him playing earlier today, and thought, I must let him got to his dream school... Parents should make such important decision but it's so hard when my own head and heart are disagreeing to each other...

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Kutik73 · 21/06/2018 22:53

Ahhh, Floot! I'll PM you!

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Floottoot · 21/06/2018 22:36

Oooh, in that case, I'm not sure which school it is, Kutik!
I thought it might be the P School...

cantkeepawayforever · 21/06/2018 21:56

Sorry, should really read the OP in detail.

Pretty much at all costs, if he is interested in Science, he should avoid Combined (1 GCSE equivalent). This is no longer available in 'standard' GCSEs, and therefore won't be taught or offered in state schools. Therefore, if he transfers to a state school, or even a non-specialist independent, at 16, it would prevent him from joining Science A-level courses.

If he does co-ordinated science, the one offering 2 GCSE equivalents, then he is much more likely to be able to do Science A-levels, and so you should push for that.

However, you should probably bear in mind that 'ordinary' GCSEs have been very thoroughly revised over the last few years for the new 9-1 grading, with science (among many other subjects) now having MUCH more content.

iGCSEs have NOT been revised as yet, which means that they currently have less content than normal GCSEs. Therefore, although 'double Science' (ie 2 normal GCSE equivalents) does not leave an insurmountable gap tob the new A-level specs, 'Co-ordinated science' iGCSE, if still available and unrevised when he reaches that age, is likely to leave a very much larger gap.

cantkeepawayforever · 21/06/2018 20:41

Possibly worth asking about the specialism of the person who has a Natural sciences degree.

The largest natural sciences degree is from Cambridge, and the final year (specialism) could be Physics or Plant Sciences, or History & philosophy of science....or many more.....

On the 'double' (combined) vs triple (separate) sciences issue,, the last time i looked into this in detail (a couple of years ago), those from double science only schools did as well in their own sixth form as those from triple science offering schools in their own sixth form, but there was a slight disadvantage for those who had transferred from double-only GCSE schools to triple-offering schools for A-level. However, my own old Oxbridge college said they had an equal number of science undergraduates who had originally done double and triple at GCSE, so doing double definitely doesn't preclude studying science at a high level in the future.

Kutik73 · 21/06/2018 20:24

Thanks Floot & TheThirdOfHerName.

I wish it is the school you think it is Floot as I like the ranking very well in the exam league bit. Grin Would you be able to give me the initial?? I'll tell you if it is the one!

I have a feeling it may not be what you think as DS's music school don't really encourage their pupils to do NYO (at least they said so at a meeting last week)...

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