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Original poster

Advice from maths teachers re Further Maths GCSE and pupil suitability please.

35 replies

P3onyPenny · 18/06/2018 19:31

I have children in top maths sets in year 9 at a grammar school. One was level 6 in Sats,the other 5. Both have been in top sets at GS since year 7, always getting A+ .One went down to set 2 but the set 2 is allegedly covering the same as set 1 and they are getting very similar marks,set 2 kid actually scoring higher at times in same exams.

They have all been told that next year only set 1 will do further maths at GCSE and there will only be 1 top set with 4 very high groups(2x set 1,2x set 2)vying for places.

Both kids want to do Maths Alevel. Is Further Maths a good bridge to Alevel and does it give an advantage?

I will of course take on board the school's advice if they think either kid isn't up to Further Maths but wouldn't one think most of those kids would be capable of it? I am suspicious limiting it to 30 is down to timetabling,lack of resources/staff etc. I could well be wrong though. Would you query it at school,point out that there should be provision for more to do it or just button my lip and assume that it's really tricky and only a few would be capable of it?Grin

OP posts:
cakeisalwaystheanswer · 19/06/2018 14:20

I wouldn't be bothered OP, it's just unecessary extra work. DD is predicted 8/9 in maths and has the choice whether or not to do FM. Although she intends to do A level maths she's going to give it a miss.

I had a long chat with the HofMaths and the FM paper her school sits isn't even all of Core 1 for A level. To put that in context, because like most of us I was clueless until DS1 sat the course, A level maths is made up of core 1,2,3 & 4, and then there are 2 other modules from a selection. I.E. a total of 6 modules/papers. The advantage of sitting FM will be that you will already have covered part of one of those 6 modules.

Its a lot of work for not much advantage in a year when they have to juggle a lot of subjects. I can appreciate that for the very mathsy it's a nice challenge but it isn't necessary. And it will leave lots of spare time for analysing poems.

noblegiraffe · 19/06/2018 13:53

An A* at maths has always sufficed for maths A-level!
A lot of FM content is now in GCSE, functions, more coordinate geometry, more ratio, more algebra. It’s supposed to be better preparation for A-level than the old GCSE although time will tell.

Take any flight paths predicting 9s from Y9 with a pinch of salt, there’s no where near enough data for that sort of thing. Giving a kid an A+ in Y9 seems fairly meaningless tbh - not a GCSE grade on either scale from what I can see?
Asking the school how many 9s they got last year in each set would be a better guide.

Original poster
P3onyPenny · 19/06/2018 13:04

8 in a classShockTo be fair we had a chart explaining new levels in relation to current grades with projected expectations if they continue working at the same level iykwim so there is an element of our presumption using said chart. Not sure what the expectations would be then if they're both continuously getting A+. It's so confusing.Confused Kid 2 has done really well this year, may well have overtaken the other one. It's a selective school with quite a strong year as regards maths this year I think.Obviously we wouldn't question the expertise at school re capability but do think the provision should be there for all who are capable. That said if it isn't possible it isn't possible.Would an 8 or 9 maths gcse suffice in the long run for those that want to do maths A levels, sciency/maths heavy degrees further down the line? My dad did similar and seemed to have several different maths o'levels. He was a bit Hmm that FM wasn't a given and they'd only have maths GCSE.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 19/06/2018 09:36

I’d be very surprised if a student with level 5 at KS2 was targeted at grade 9. From what I can see, FFT are targeting mid-high level 6 at grade 9, level 5s would be 7-8. Do you know how many 9s the school got in maths last year?

There could be a case for your set 2 Y10 doing FM, I’m teaching it to a class of 8/9s, but we’ve dropped it for the 7/8s as maximising GCSE grade is the priority.

sandybayley · 19/06/2018 08:29

@noblegiraffe is the expert here but like @lljkk DS1 has just gone off to a maths exam (Ad Maths not FM).

I wouldn't underestimate how much GCSE maths has changed - it's a lot harder. It's a bit early to be predicting 9s in Year 9 when we really don't know how things will pan out this year.

DS1's school (v selective independent) are generally saying 8/9 rather than being specific. The top 3 sets (of 8) do Ad Maths and it's taught in lessons as they covered the GCSE curriculum early.

I wouldn't rush to push for your 2nd DC to do FM. I think most schools know what they're going when they make these recommendations and the trend seems to be fewer exams taken to ensure better marks.

lljkk · 19/06/2018 08:08

DD just went to her exam so I can't ask about overlap... when we went thru the book it seemed like 20% overlap with material she'd seen before (not counting things like basic numeracy). I'm surprised they are predicting 9s for kids still only in yr9. Presumably a lot of material hasn't been presented to them yet, how can anyone know if they'll find it as easy as the previous material.

Original poster
P3onyPenny · 19/06/2018 07:47

So do you not think working towards and on target for a 9 at GCSE would make even set 2/ lower set 1 candidates suitable?

That said would solely focusing on actually getting said 9 in the GCSE be prudent and enough prep for Alevel or is there overlap? I'm guessing if many are dropping it they wouldn't be disadvantaged? Also is some advantage to be had in freeing up the extra maths time for other weighty subjects?

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 18/06/2018 20:47

Don’t know, Further Maths is changing and current Y10 will be the last to sit the current syllabus. The new one will be first sat in 2020 and as far as I know it’s pretty much the same syllabus but will be graded 9-1 so no more A^, I don’t know how the exam papers compare.

Loads of schools have stopped offering it because of the increase in content in GCSE meaning there’s not enough time to cover it, and because aiming for a grade 9 offers more challenge than previously available.

It’s a nice qualification but I wouldn’t be pushing it on set 2s any more.

marialuisa · 18/06/2018 20:41

This might be useful. They run twilight sessions.furthermaths.org.uk

lljkk · 18/06/2018 19:46

There is a national shortage of math teachers so resource limits is very likely.

It may be relevant to say that DD is doing FM GCSEs this week mostly self-learning out of a book, only some scheduled sessions with a teacher.