Advice from maths teachers re Further Maths GCSE and pupil suitability please.

We teach OCR Add Maths only to our top set and not all actually sit the exam - all are entered but it is decided late on whether or not to sit it based on how they perform in mock and impact on normal GCSE (better to get 9 in GCSE than 7/8 plus add maths).

We do get some parents who want their 2nd set kids to sit it but they are generally not suitable as it is more likely to impact their GCSE performance. There is a lot of content in Add Maths.

Almost all of our Alevel Further Mathematicians will have done Add Maths and those that haven’t are at a disadvantage but it is certainly possible. Most of our standard Maths Alevel students won’t have covered Add Maths. Again it is an advantage to have covered it as it’s there is some overlap and their algebra, graph work, trig etc is generally better. But we generally have about half the year group from year 11 do Alevel Maths so clearly there will a lot who weren’t in the top set.

Further Maths only goes down to a C grade, for which you need about 18%. All my top set (state comp) passed when I last taught it.

What Rachel said :)
I often found half of the top sets at grammar do very well in Add Maths and get A/B. The other half can’t be asked or not good enough at the time and get E/U. It is a tough course to do well in.

Yes additional has a lot more content including statistics and mechanics - which is good preparation for A level but too much pressure to finish in year 11 without impacting other subjects. Further maths is more of an extension of GCSE with added bits. We also found when we did additional that our students found it hard to master the topics to gain the best grades in time (being level 3).

I think it's because Add Maths is a Level3 qualification and Further maths is level 2 .So in layman terms further maths is another GCSE whereas Add Maths is more like what in my day was called an AO.

It is explained upthread

2 to 3 top sets out of 8 at an average grammar can do the Further Maths GCSE well.
Add Maths is a different matter altogether though.

I would say they are missing an opportunity (depending on staffing availability though). We are not a super selective. We do not enter everyone for the exam (they have to perform well in a mock) as it might be detrimental to their other GCSEs.

Hello
I teach Maths and Further Maths up to A level at a girls’ grammar school. While not essential to starting A level, we offer FM gcse to our top and middle sets (certainly not compulsory). Top sets do it in class as we finish the specification quite early and middle sets are offered lunch time sessions.
In sixth form those that have done further maths at gcse (or additional maths) are always at an advantage as they have covered several topics in depth. There is some overlap and it is the practice of the advanced methods that give them the edge over those that haven’t done it. On saying that, we have several external students without further maths and they do catch up. I wouldn’t suggest doing further maths gcse if it is going to risk taking time away from the actual gcse and potentially lowering the grade.

Just a detail point for A level. It is no longer modular (except for part of FM A level). The C1-4 do not exist and everyone follows a new specification which is a mix of core, statistics and mechanics. Some schools offer exams at AS after year 12 but the qualification is now a two year linear course (all examined in year 13). We started teaching it this (so the poor kids who were first with the new gcse are also first with this A level).

Hope this helps

Rachel

I get to self-preen. Last night I helped DD with some trig/identity/algebra problems. I must admit I'm surprised she needed help, they seemed pretty easy to me. So maybe I'm still a clever clogs after all.

She had the same type of problem come up in today's exam and felt really good about tackling it. She's come out from this last exam deflated since she can finally relax but elated that she can finally relax. :)

We had celebration take-away for supper. Best of luck to anyone getting exam results in August.x

My Dc took maths GCSE last summer, so the first year to take the new exams. The top sets (2, I think) took Maths and Further Maths in the same curriculum time as just the GCSE. Loads of them (including Dc) got 9 in Maths and A in FM (no A* available in the course). S. London comp.

The FM has been really helpful in Dc’s transition to A level Maths.

I would talk to the school. I think FM is only important if you think your Dc might want to do Maths ot Physics at A level.

@BackforGood my DD also the same - 1 hour a week for FM after school and in a comp

I am not a maths teacher but my son was an able mathematician not offered further or additional maths at GCSE as the school doesn't offer them. Instead he self taught the Pearson Edexcel Level 3 Award in Algebra as the school had nothing to lose in entering him as it is not going on the league table and as it is pass or fail not graded it wouldn't harm his UCAS form as he could have left it off if he failed.

As it was he got a good pass and he found it was a great foundation (alongside his maths GCSE) for A level Maths and Further Maths in which he also got good passes, he has also now finished the first year of his maths and computer science degree.

Yep, I’ve got a few level 5s in my group that are probably headed for 8/9. But they are not targeted at a 9.

@noblegiraffe my DD was a Level 5 at KS2 Sats. She sat her first further maths GCSE paper yesterday. She is predicted 8/9 in GCSE maths.

Fdback from today's exam (first of 2) is that most of them found it very challenging.
DD took the FMSQ Add Maths paper today. She found the actual exam much harder than expected

That's comforting to hear, as dd said it was hard
That said, like Stickerrocks' dd, my dd only has one lesson a week, after school for FM, in a comp.

DD took the FMSQ Add Maths paper today. She found the actual exam much harder than expected, but they have only had an extra hour each week after school In a bog standard comp. She will be taking A level maths, but she "only" needs a grade 7 in the standard GCSE to take it.

Don't forget that grades 7, 8 & 9 equate to the old A & A and they won't be giving out grade 9s at the same rate as they gave out As, typically only awarding them to 2-3%. Many schools are refusing to predict grade 9s, as there seems to be no rhyme nor reason to who will get them for any subject. Hopefully things will have settled down by the time your year 9s get there.

thank you Noble .Ds did the Add maths paper today. He is very able but it was definitely a baptism of fire. He has really enjoyed the topics but said he found the paper difficult , he is hoping to do A level though so hopefully it will stand him in good stead.TBH he only has one exam left now on Thursday but I would cheerfully have let this one go.

Further maths is a level 2 GCSE qualification and Additional Maths is a level 3 qualification that has some UCAS points (not many!).

What is the difference between the FM GCSE and The OCR Add maths ?Can anyone enlighten me ?

Finally home from work... DD says that the overlap betw. reg. math & FM is about 70%. BUT, "overlap" means same concepts/methods but always at much higher level, so only sort of an overlap. You need to be very competent at the regular math to handle the FM material; lots more of same but much harder problems.

The other 30% she reckons is genuinely different concepts (while still being math).

Fdback from today's exam (first of 2) is that most of them found it very challenging.

unecessary extra work

It’s extra maths and maths is cool 😎

It’s a lovely qualification (dare I say it the papers are fun) and while I think that the need to do it to bridge the gap to A-level is lessened, it’s still nice for the really able students to get their teeth into something slightly different.

My children’s grammar school only enter set 1 (out of 5) for Further Maths. Last year 30% of the whole cohort was awarded a Grade 9.