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A level predicted grades

38 replies

SaltyMyDear · 18/06/2018 11:53

School is refusing to predict DS the grades he needs to apply for the university course he wants to do.

Originally The teacher said he’d either get an A or an A but he wasn’t allowed to predict an A

Now he’s saying DS works not good enough to predict an A* - which I totally don’t believe given his earlier comment.

Is there any way I can reason with school so they don’t destroy his dreams?

I’m aware how hard it is to get an A* I’m also aware why he ‘only’ got an A in his mocks this year and why he should do better next year.

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Bluntness100 · 18/06/2018 19:00

It’s not normal to have a quota of A grades to predict and then no more*

I totally agree, that's why she needs to speak to thr head. But it also needs to be tied to the fact the teacher thinks there is a seventy percent chance the student won't achieve an A*. If you look at that fact in isolation then yes it's right not to predict it.

titchy · 18/06/2018 18:51

because it means that the school is then not trusted by the unis

Errr no that really doesn't happen. Admissions tutors have hundred of forms to work through - the idea that they'll look at the school code and remember that one under predicted last year! The predicted grade is taken at face value, along with the knowledge that they'll mostly be inaccurate.

DumbledoresApprentice · 18/06/2018 18:36

He can apply to Cambridge without an A prediction. GCSE results and results on entrance exams will be far more important than the predicted grade. If he has strong GCSEs he should focus on preparing for the entrance test for his subject and apply anyway. The absence of an A prediction shouldn’t prevent him being interviewed.

noblegiraffe · 18/06/2018 17:38

Schools do discourage pupils who they think will not achieve the grades

And this is fine. It’s not normal to have a quota of A grades to predict and then no more. ‘Sorry I can’t predict you an A because you haven’t a hope of getting it’ is fine. ‘Sorry, I can’t predict you an A* because I gave the last one to Johnny’ isn’t.

Bluntness100 · 18/06/2018 17:09

For some totally bizarre and unexplainable reason very few kids go onto med school or oxbridge - because they actively discourage them from applying

This makes absolutely no logical sense. I'm sure you must be able to see that. If this is what the school boasts about why would they discourage capable kids who they think have a shot at it not to apply. In fact, I think you're going further than that, I think you're insinuating they make the predictions so they can't.

It makes no sense. I think you should talk to the head, because with the best will in the world I cannot see how what you're posting is accurate.

Schools do discourage pupils who they think will not achieve the grades and are sure won't get in not to waste their time applying, sure, that's the way it should be, but that is not the same as discouraging kids who would have a shot at it, or trying to set rules to prevent it.

Why would they do that? It serves them no benefit at all.

SaltyMyDear · 18/06/2018 16:54

It’s a catholic school.

Was times best 6th form in the country or something like that - and this is what is trotted out over and over again.

A level class sizes of 30 pupils.

Very few extra curricular clubs.

DS and another girl represented the college in a national debating competition where they got through to the final round and lost to Eton.

I think every other school would be encouraging him to apply. And I can’t understand what is going on here.

Besides the fact I’m sure they don’t understand contextual offers. You can’t compare DSs secondary school to the catholic feeder schools. Especially the girls catholic feeder schools.

Incidentally because the college is very selective there are far less boys than girls there. Because boys tend to do worse at GCSEs than girls.

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noblegiraffe · 18/06/2018 16:25

Is it an academy or a LA maintained school?

noblegiraffe · 18/06/2018 16:24

Bluntness but you’re assuming that the ‘30%’ and the ‘14%’ have any scientific accuracy behind them. Neither do. The teacher thinks the OP’s DS has a shot at an A. There are reasons to think he will do better next year. If he’s not predicted an A, he can’t apply to Cambridge. If they do predict him an A* and he doesn’t get it then....nothing really for the school, and so long as he has an insurance offer he’ll be fine.
Plenty of other schools will be predicting their bright kids optimistic grades in order to open that first door for them.

Where did this 14% come from? Confused
Why are the school discouraging bright kids from applying to Oxbridge? It’s all very odd.

SaltyMyDear · 18/06/2018 16:15

Errol that’s what DS has decided. To apply anyway.

Bluntness 14% isn’t a lot in a selective 6th form college. Every single person came up with an A or A* in GCSEs.

Noble thanks.

DS doesn’t want me to make a formal complaint but I very much want to. It is totally not fair. He got an A on a mock that was on the same day as his maths AS exam. There’s every reason to expect he’ll do better next year with both an extra year of teaching and dropping the one subject (maths) that he found hard.

I want to complain not because I think my DS is a genius. But because it isn’t fair.

This school makes a big deal about their oxbridge and med school programs - but don’t mention anything about how many people get accepted. And I forgot to ask.

For some totally bizarre and unexplainable reason very few kids go onto med school or oxbridge - because they actively discourage them from applying.

This is a (state) selective school that should get lots of kids to oxbridge and med school - because around 50% of their very large cohort go to this college with the aim of getting into med school or oxbridge.

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ErrolTheDragon · 18/06/2018 16:02

The only sure way to not get an offer from Cambridge is to not apply, and he has 4 other UCAS choices. Also, they have their own aptitude tests (not sure if this is all subjects?) which I believe they introduced because of AS being essentially scrapped and not wanting to rely solely on grades predicted by schools.

I'm pretty sure they know the outcome of that test before they have to make their UCAS choices (ie if they fluff it they won't waste a choice) so maybe encourage him to sit the test and see how he fares, in a 'nothing ventured, nothing gained' spirit?

Bluntness100 · 18/06/2018 15:50

That's not quite rhe whole story giraffe, the teacher has said he has only a thirty percent chance of achieving it, that's quite low and clearly as such wouldn't be an accurate prediction, they are saying he's much more likely to get an a.

I'm fairly sure if they thought he had more chance of getting it, he'd be in the 14 percent.

As said, 14 percent predicted a star is always quite high. I think if there was a case for him there rhe school would go over the 14 percent, all schools love to boast of oxbridge applicant success stories, the fact they won't and are saying it's 30 percent indicates they really don't feel a star would be an accurate prediction.

noblegiraffe · 18/06/2018 15:13

5/6 UCAS predicted grades are wrong, it really isn’t a science, it’s a guesstimate, especially early in Y13 when most predicted grades are set, and now without solid AS results which count towards 50% of the final grade to go on as well.

The teacher isn’t saying that the DS isn’t capable of an A, the teacher is saying that he’s not allowed to predict him a A because of this 14% figure. This means that the DS’s A-level predictions are not based on his performance, but on the A-level predictions of other students.

ReservoirDogs · 18/06/2018 15:00

Perhaps the school will not over predict because it means that the school is then not trusted by the unis when their predictions arrive and it thus disadvantages their whole cohort.

Believe me there is nothing more that a school would like to do than get Oxbridge offers which it can then use in their promotional literature. I am afraid OP you might just have to adjust your expectations of your child and that the school are trying to use the kindest route of saying he may not be performing at the level you hope him to be.

I am unsure why a gap year is not possible? If your DS is going to get the grades you anticipate he can apply next year with the grades and then thumb his nose at the school!

ifonly4 · 18/06/2018 14:13

It'd be worth checking if the school feel they give accurate predictions. DD's school told us last November, their predictions are normally very accurate and they won't budge due to parental pressure. DD has her predictions for her uni applications later this year, A*AB, that B is going to restrict what she wants to study and where. She's fighting her case with the school, they've agreed to an exam resit and looking at her work carefully. Resit hasn't gone well, so perhaps a B really is the likely outcome.

FreiasBathtub · 18/06/2018 13:49

Salty I'm not an expert on Cambridge admissions (especially as so much of it is devolved to the colleges) but given that DS's GCSE school is potentially underperforming and that we're talking about a one-grade difference at A-level predictions, I wouldn't assume that not changing the prediction will mean no interview.

Does DS have a preferred college in mind? It might be worth contacting a few admissions tutors (contact info will be on the college websites) and just asking them whether missing the standard offer by one grade at prediction stage would be a complete dealbreaker. Is the underprediction in the subject DS wants to study? What are his GCSE results like?

Bluntness100 · 18/06/2018 13:49

I think the question here is why he is not one of the 14 percent of students predicted to get an A*. 14 percent is quite a lot.

I think the school would not be being completely honest if they predicted him an A* when they know it's a 70 percent chance he won't achieve that.

I get the frustration you are feeling, but the bigger picture is will he achieve it or not, and sadly at this stage it seems unlikely. If it was 50/50 the case would be stronger.

I would appeal but I think you may find rhe school will stand behind their predictions for him. As an educational establishment they stand to lose reputation and damage students if they become renowned for wasting universities time by erroneous predictions.

However if it was me, I'd still see what I can do for him to get the prediction but I'd also try to understand the schools position.

SaltyMyDear · 18/06/2018 13:41

Yeah, looking round none of the schools offer exactly what he's taking.

So, I guess we have to appeal. But that really isn't a good option, because that's just loads of stress. And even if you do win the stress doesn't go away.

Fuck. I'm really out of ideas and options.

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noblegiraffe · 18/06/2018 13:37

I’ve never heard of a student switching sixth forms for Y13 (usually they restart Y12) but I would imagine there would be huge issues with finding an alternative who can offer the same options with the same exam boards, and even if you can do that, content may be taught in a different order which could leave gaps in knowledge.
Then you still need predicted grades based on..? The predicted grades of the previous school? And you would need for Cambridge entry, UCAS forms done pretty sharpish and references written by a school that don’t know him at all.

If kids have been kicked out for mock results then you could try to find out what they’re doing?

SaltyMyDear · 18/06/2018 13:29

Freias I think his secondary school might be on the contextual data list, but his 6th form college won't be.

Which is why he has a good chance of getting an interview if they predict him the required grades.

His 6th form college are totally failing to take this into account.

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FreiasBathtub · 18/06/2018 13:24

What kind of school is it @SaltyMyDear? Depending on its performance record at GCSE and A-level, and how many people it usually sends to Oxbridge in a typical year, your DS might be flagged under Cambridge's contextual admissions process.

Also, depending on where you live, his application might get some geodemographic flags. This is all part of Cambridge's efforts to widen their pool of applicants/students and, although they are pretty vague about exactly what this means for individual applications, it should probably mean that missing the standard offer by one grade in predictions won't necessarily mean no interview.

More detail here: I'd encourage you to read it, Cambridge are unusually open about this process!

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/applying/contextual-data

glitterbiscuits · 18/06/2018 13:23

It sounds a bit dodgy that they have quotas of grades to give out and that the Oxbridge stream is being discouraged.
Can they not take a holistic view looking at GCSEs etc?

SaltyMyDear · 18/06/2018 13:04

It's not the only place he'd consider. And of course he may or may not get Cambridge.

But if he can't even apply to Cambridge due to this it is so incredibly unfair.

It should be Cambridge that choose, not the school.

They've told most of the pupils on the 'oxbridge program' not to apply.

Noble, what would happen if we moved school?

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glitterbiscuits · 18/06/2018 13:02

I don't spot in your post he wanted Cambridge.
Is that the only place he will consider?
Depending on the subject some RG unis have courses in clearing which came as a surprise to me.

SaltyMyDear · 18/06/2018 12:58

Thanks Noble

I'm waiting for the SENCO to call me back, and hope she can put in a word for me and get it changed. (He's on the SEN register and she's been very good so far)

Otherwise I'll have to make a formal complaint. Which will fail - I will say exactly what you've said.

But not only will the complaint fail, it will also ruin our summer holidays while we wait for it to fail.

Glitter You can't trade up for universities like Cambridge.

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