Winchester College - supposing you're not at all quirky?

Thank you Propatria, that is a very kind and, under the circumstances, generous comment. I thought that was the case about team sports at Wincoll, and although DS loves football and cricket is less keen on rugby. In fact, he'd not be keen to have to play that at any school (thinking about that, is rugby compulsory at H)? We were told last week from a freinds DC at E, that he scrapes into the third and fourth teams there (even though he was very sporty at prep). Wincoll is doing a sports scholarship now and I get the feeling that if DS went there he'd stand a better chance of being higher up the order (so to speak). Also, IMHO the new HM seems keen to focus on football and cricket and there's an Ex Southampton pro there coaching the boys football, so there's clearly a 'push' to improve.

Also, being a smaller school, there's not so much competition to get into the teams.

I am not going to think about this for a couple of months and revisit when more is known about the options. If anyone can add anything about the characters of these places (not the boys) it would be really appreciated.

I dont think even the biggest Winchester advocate would claim that team sports are a priority or indeed that sport is a priority.from your description,pretty clear which school you should choose,if you get the choice..good luck..

Correction: DS does not currently know....

I just wanted to unreservedly apologise again to you all for putting such crass and unnecessary comments earlier in this thread. It was not at all helpful, and I can completely understand the offence these caused - sorry.

We put our DS name down at E and H when he was six years old, after visiting a prep school that seemed surprised we had not already registered anywhere. We only registered at those schools because their facilities were not like anything available locally and we wanted our DS to be at a boys boarding senior school (so choice was relatively limited). It was nothing to do with status (as suggested earlier my AP).

After he started at his current school, the guys from Wincoll came and spoke to prospective parents, we visited and were blown away by the beauty of it and registered him. Everyone we met was really helpful and understated.

Meanwhile, and being factual, the problem we have is that our DS would suit any of the three schools, even though we had no idea about that when we first registered. He's very musical (grade five+ on three instruments), he's not a scholar (but still pretty bright), he loves sport and is in the school's first teams, but is not at county standard.

Thank you all for all your kind help and sorry again for the way I wrote such appalling comments earlier.
We're really struggling here and have now decided to take the advice of OP and leave the decision for now, but thank you for all your helpful comments and please accept my sincere apologies for any upset I caused. To a certain extent, we're still in limbo as DS does now currently know the result of his final test, interview at E and is one of 250 that will find out next week. Presumably, if he's offered a place, we'll get to ask as many questions as we like and can make our minds up from there.

Worth remembering that boys at Winchester dont sit English Lit GCSE and History GCSE is an option,,so that frees up time for Div.

Propriata I can only speak for my DS's experience of Div and that of what he has been told by his house / year when they compare notes. Although there was a focus on English and History in his first two years, what they covered varied enormously according to their div teacher for example one of his did loads of Russian literature and history covered was also eclectic. Some Div dons were amazing characters, others more straightforward

This is the official line from the school about it www.winchestercollege.org/division
I can imagine what good speakers Eton has for its talks and the opportunities they provide to broaden education for those boy s who attend. All these three schools will be lucky enough to have lots of outside speakers.
Wormthreads a Div task is just the weekly essay they write for their Div lessons. Only final year sixth formers can have some extra Saturday evenings / nights out of school but they still have to produce their Div essays for Sunday morning.

I don't want to sound judgemental like you but I agree with Battleaxe that you are coming across as having rather one dimensional views of what you view as desirable characteristics for your DS. My DS has learnt to 'rub along' as you put it but even more get to know and appreciate beyond superficial impressions all sorts of boys, including those who you would classify as socially inept. Many of my eminent colleagues are also not 'salesmen' and may have some ASD traits but they certainly have depth and produce amazing work. I personally prefer that to charmers or leaders who do not deliver (Winchester will have their share of those types as well).

It’s not just your completely off-colour remarks about “Rain man”. You seem to be working from this strange interior value system that ranks any shyness as a poor character and superficial charm as the most desirable trait possible and then you post as though everyone will naturally concur with your peculiar world view.

It really does come across as most strange, as well as horribly judgmental and bigoted.

You aren't in the dock,just being asked where exactly some of your "facts" come from..
I know very few people that would think H,E and Win were all suitable for the same boy,they are very different schools
It really isnt difficult to get solid info as you put it,what is difficult it to get a real feel for a school,exam results,uni destinations etc are easy,whats hard is seeing what school would suit your son/s best,that isnt often a matter of just picking the best known names..
If you said why you picked those three schools and what interests your son has ,then people could help you .

I don't know anything about Div and got the impression it really restricted boys movements at Wincoll on a Saturday night. I think if you've worked hard all week, there should be down time on a Saturday evening.

My understanding, although I have no evidence of this, is that Eton and Harrow are a bit more relaxed about Saturday evenings, whereas Wincoll have an expectation the boys will be doing Div (what the difference between doing div and doing a div task is I have no idea but am sure you'll all tell me).

Does anyone know if the boys from either Eton, Wincoll or Harrow can go out to supper on a Saturday nihgt (or even have a night away from school without it being an exeat)?

In the meantime, if I have offeded anyone, or got any of my facts wrong, I completely and unreservedly apologise. It was not my intention to be an arse, but reading the posts back I can see they were a bit 'hard' and possibly heartless - very sorry.

One of our good friends DS has aspergers, and we're very familiar with it and can completely understand it. Also, I totally 'get' Wincollparents comments about it's prevalence where there are very bright boys e.t.c).

Sorry again - please forgive me.

Thanks for asking about my earlier posts. Didn't realise I was in the dock in a court and would need to provide 'evidence'!

Wowee, I'm new to all this and hadn't realised the emotions my posts would stir up. You do completely demonstrate my entire problem though, in that it is extremely difficult to get any solid info about a place that will take £200k plus of our money over the next few years. I guess the reason this site exist is because prospective parents are trying to get basic information that will help their DS's. Not sure the 'evidence exists' in a way you'd be satisfied with, and anyway as they say there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

In the meantime, the comment regarding my personal 'status' is a bit odd. Our DS is registered at what we think are the three best schools that would best suit his personality and character. The only place outside our immediate family that our DS's school has been discussed is on this forum (and a little bit when asked at his prep school). It's only possible to engage in this thread by openly describing the school's under consideration, so the comment about status is somewhat misplaced.

www.etoncollege.com/userfiles/files/Destination%20of%20Etonians%202015.pdf
www.winchestercollege.org/exams-and-universities
www.tatler.com/school/winchester-college-review-tatler-school-guide-2018
www.tatler.com/school/eton-college

St Pauls ISI report states: 1406 pupils
Eton latest ISI report states: 1320 pupils
Oundle ISI report states: 1110 pupils
Rugby ISI report states: 802 pupils
Charterhouse report states: ISI 806
Westminster ISI report states: 742 pupils
Winchester ISI report states: 685 pupils
Sherbourne ISI report states: 551 pupils

The other info you've asked about will be provided when I get a chance.

Worn..Where exactly are you getting some of your info?
Eton and Winchester get 33% to Oxbridge? Evidence for both please..
Winchester is not" small compared to almost any other"
Winchester has a" better pupil teacher ratio than any other".Evidence please..
There are more Professors than any other..could you name some of these Professors?
If you think Div is so fantastic ..ask a few Win coll boys /parents exactly what they do for the first three years in Div,also look at what other schools offer,they might not call it Div,but Win really isnt unique in co curric..
Eton for example has a very good personal tutor system and the society talks etc are without equal.

@wormthreads are you aware of your own obnoxiousness and disablism?

BTW Div does n't happen on Saturday eveining but every school day. The boys do their Div task on Saturday evening.
As for leadership, well there is plenty of opportunities to develop leadeship if a boy has those natural qualities. I personally value inner confidence rather than false or over confidence.

I was struck by your status comment, as it smacked of insecurity (like short man syndrome), which is not an endearing trait. With a third of the boys going to Oxbridge, there’s no need to be at all defensive

I am making no claim about relative 'status' for Winchester or any other school (or any meglomaniac comments about UK schools being 'best' in the world). I don't really see the point of that, although some parents (and you seem to be one of them) do care and are competitive about perceived school status.
My DS has had a fantastic time and education at Winchester and so have most of the boys at his school without undue stress at least certainly not originating from the school.

There are some for whom it is not such a good fit and usually that is because the parents wanted Winchester more than their DSs did. If your DS prefers Harrow or Eton or wherever and you also feel more comfortable with these schools go with your instincts and do not stagnate in indecisiveness just as you saw your friends' DS do. Or as I said before just postpone the decision until your DS matures further and knows his own mind.

For what it is worth, I don't see the Winchester and its pupils creating 'quirky' boys from 'normal' boys. Quirky boys however are not made to feel awkward or to conform to a certain type. ASD traits inevitably are more prevalent in a very bright cohort and can increasingly manifest during and beyond adolescence.
Generally the sixth formers and leavers of a school best represent how the boys develop through their time there and what they get out of it, not snapshots of awkward teenagers. However family influences will also of course input into how a boy grows up.

Wincollparent, assuming that English schools are the best in the world (and I am guessing that’s one of the reasons overseas parents send their DS’s to England from so many and varied countries), your comment about status is completely irrelevant.

My understanding is Wincoll had the best (on a par with Eton) Oxbridge places @ 33%. They are a small school compared to almost any other, they have a much better teacher/pupil ratio than any other, there are more professors there than any other, they take pre - U’s not A levels (which are a more basic qualification and taken at Harrow) and although not entirely relevant, there are ‘river keepers’ on the payroll (that continued commitment to ensuring the beauty of the place is phenomenal).

One of my concerns about sending DS to Wincoll is the topic of this thread (quirky boys/weirdos).

I was struck by your status comment, as it smacked of insecurity (like short man syndrome), which is not an endearing trait. With a third of the boys going to Oxbridge, there’s no need to be at all defensive. Particularly, as the same cannot be said for Harrow (but it can for Eton) although DS is only on the waiting list there.

Having experienced some of the div lessons at Wincoll earlier this year, they’re absolutely amazing. None of the other schools do Div on a Saturday night, which when paying for education ensures paying parents are assured their DS’s get what Americans call a ‘better bang for their buck’!

I guess the main question is, after five years at senior school, would it be better to have a leaver heading to Oxbridge having enjoyed their five years at Wincoll but potentially socially inept/wierd/quirky, or heading to another further education place with the ability to ‘rub along’ and be a leader (rather than a follower).

worm i just think it's obvious that more people apply to day school so you get way more kids going for 1 place. i don't know any statistics though.

I def think Wincollege is a highly academic environment where you are expected to make the most of all that is on offer (incredible music dept etc etc) and if you don't your parents are wasting their money.

St Paul's was prob the only day school that could compare. (harder to get into tho!)
if you can afford it and you both like it go for it! don't over think it! wincoll is right there!

We love the idea of our D.S being educated in one of the best schools (if not the best) in the world,
Your focus on school status may be making your decision harder than it should be. If Harrow feeld better for your DS then most likely it is.

Wormthreads teenagers quite often go through a relatively mute stage or develop other issues so I would n't overinterpret that as being due to the school.
Some parents on these Winchester threads also seem to find it rather difficult to make a decision for school choices .
I would suggest when there is a choice to go for the school that your DS and you are most drawn to and comfortable at rather than overanalysing heresay and reports. Life is too short to overthink these things and there will always be some risk that you can't analyse for.
If it is not clear now and you can wait before deciding just leave it until the last minute.

Honestly? I went on a scholarship to the girls’ school nearby and having shared events academically and socially with them, I would say the majority are weird and the rest are pretty arrogant. Big issues with drugs too, although mainly just weed, which is better than the coke in other places. Most other boys’ public schools alumni think of them as intelligent, shit at sport and weird. (They tend to wear leather necklace chokers and harem pants and go and smoke opium or hash in Vietnam whilst pretending to be impoverished on their gap yah). But then, I find most public school boy types a little wearing, so don’t perhaps listen to that viewpoint. The only major name school I’ve known that does not produce public school paternalistic arrogance in boys is Downside, but they aren’t stellar grades-wise (but still better than Milton Abbey and Stowe, where kids are mostly marking time until they inherit). Having spoken to quite a few from there, it seems there is an enormous emphasis on community and humility, possibly because of its Catholic ethos (don’t worry, only four of its monk teachers have been jailed, and the school has now severed ties with the monastery and doesn’t allow monks to teach any more, and they have a lay headmaster).

However, I’m just a former private tutor who had to deal with all the public schools who were “failing kids” (although that mainly came down to kids blaming the teachers [hmmm]). Schools that came up frequently over the ten years that I tutored for GCSE and A Level: Cheltenham, Shiplake, Teddies, Eton, Harrow, Milton Abbey and Stowe (those two a lot!). Never Radley or Winchester - make of that what you will! But in my opinion, if you are going to spend a lot on education, you don’t want to be forced into topping up in the holidays with extra tutoring.

Forgive the lack of ability on the emogees (should have gone to Wincoll to be clever enough to add them properly)

That's an interesting comment Kalifornia - thanks for the update. Do you know if what sort of difference there is between the acceptance rates of St Pauls/Westminster 'v' Harrow/Eton?

DS gets a huge amount from the boarding environment and as a result of boarding his time playing 'Fornite' is limited to exeats and holidays (grin). Fairly sure we'd come unstuck if he was a day boy, with us trying to convince him that 'prep' was more important than Xbox!

Just another thought about the boys characters at Wincoll. We bumped into a friends DS in January during a visit there. He's in college and won a scholarship a couple of years ago. He was/is very bright. We hadn't seen him since he started and TBH he was never what could be called 'main stream'. I don't know the reason, but he'd developed a strange habit of rolling his eyes (and head) whilst thinking about his next sentence. For example, we were at an event where there were refreshments and I asked him if he wanted a hot chocolate. He seemed almost entirely unable to work out if he wanted a hot chocolate (or not). In the time he'd worked out that he wanted one, I'd already bought it for him. He then took ages working out the best way to say thank you e.t.c. I decided not to ask him if he wanted a packet of sweets, as the interval was only fifteen minutes (grin). We're friends with his DD and DM and have known the family for years, so we were surprised at this boy's change from straightforward conversation to stilted uncertainty. Oddly, we then saw their entire family together a few weeks later and his DM told us how well it was all going for her DS at Wincoll (how happy he was e.t.c). The boy had told us there were some exceptionally 'gifted' boys there and we assumed he was struggling to keep up with them. I guess, the commoner boys feel less of a need to be at the top of the class, but there was a definite change in confidence in approach in this particular boy and he'd gone from 'nice' age 12 to 'quirky' age 14ish.

Winchester as a backup for Hampton and for "reasonably able students",thats hilarious...

As I said above I also agree that the frequency of brilliance and quirkiness is overstated by some posters.
However Winchester is doing something right in selection as very few leave at sixth form and their percentage of A* equivalent for A level is much higher at about 50% normally than Hampton for example. I guess they take more with a skewed academic profile rather than requiring all rounders and they are very good with SEN.
They do have a tail end of results partly because of SEN but also I think to a certain extent because the school is about independence and self motivation. IME a boy who is not self-motivated will be encouraged but not pushed into good grades.

agree with you dontblameit
it's merely a numbers game now - obv not as many applicants for boarding schools for obvious reasons. london day schools are a bloody nightmare to get into.

I know 6 or 7 boys there and all are very bright but i wouldn't say particularly quirky/genius. I looked round it but not being able to afford it i was really going for a nose! i didnt think it would suit my lazy DS tho. i think you need to be pretty self motivated.

The boys i know there are very musical but also sporty and bright and very happy. HTH.