GCSE PE - girls performances vs boys?

In terms of support from the school, there was very little!! We did the football videos (her big brother filmed her keeping for a whole game!) and her county coaches had a lot of video anyway which they added to over the winter

Hi. Dd did GCSE this year. She did football and cricket. Football she got 17/20, we submitted videos and her and her friend went to an external moderating day. Cricket she got 20/20 and was told that that was partly down to playing at county level, although we submitted lots of videos too 😊

Most state secondary schools do have well coached competitive teams
that's not our experience, in our (massive) local authority, sadly.

Re it being a risky choice of GCSE if your school doesn't support the sport - nonsense.
I agree, that is nonsense. We have a friend who is doing climbing, for example - she's an excellent climber. Really easy to film as it is one person, doing a set climb, with a known difficulty rating, and doesn't depend on the opposition, or the weather, or being in a difficult to film situation, or isn't dependent on team mates, etc.,etc. If she has a bad climb it's fine, she just goes again a few minutes later, and is filmed again. You can't do that in a PE lesson.

Also many do not have parents who can help and support in any way at all. Therefore it’s a risky GCSE for some.
this I do agree with though.

I really didn’t mean a negative “if”. I think you are splitting hairs! I am well aware many girls play football but you really don’t know how good the coaching is nationwide in schools. I thought there was a shortage of grass roots coaches in football. Again, numbers are not necessarily nationwide excellence.

I obviously realise equestrian sports are not supported by schools but many children choose team sports as part of their sport portfolio and poorer children really are not going to do horse riding. I speak here as a racehorse owner. Riding Lessons and horses are expensive. Many are taught by their parents and come from horsey families which is entirely different to the choices available to a poor child from a deprived area in a city. I bet Briony Frost would have got a 9 in GCSE PE should she have taken it! But we all know she would have had every opportunity to do well. Therefore many poorer children have to choose what’s on offer at school. Also many do not have parents who can help and support in any way at all. Therefore it’s a risky GCSE for some.

I’m glad your DD will get her 7/8. It must be a great feeling.

"If there are so many girls playing football I am amazed that schools don't have ultra competitive well coached teams"

"If"? Seriously? - yes you are right Sport England are making the numbers up!

Most state secondary schools do have well coached competitive teams

Re it being a risky choice of GCSE if your school doesn't support the sport - nonsense. You've seen posters on this thread reference horse riding as a sport their dc did for PE (and indicating that it is quite easy to score well in horse riding). Dd managed 18/20 for a sport her school doesn't offer for girls (school too small for viable numbers) so clearly it wasn't risky for her. Please don't worry on her account she is predicted a 7/8

You seem rather invested in this?

hmcAsWas - I wasn't only referring to hockey v football. I'm sure lots of other sports have the same issue (oh except of course football apparently).
Bottom line is that whatever the sport, playing County level doesn't necessarily mean that player will score a high mark. You could have an outstanding player who won't score highly in all areas. Doesn't mean they don't get selected, just means they aren't perfect..

seams?? Exams

Participation does not necessarily equal technique though. The specification is all about technique. You can have millions of people playing at a low casual level. That’s fine of course. High participation should mean that technique is good but that will depend on quality of coaching. If there are so many girls playing football then I’m amazed schools don’t have ultra competitive well coached teams! The numbers and school participation don’t seem to add up!

It seems to be a very dodgy GCSE to choose if your school doesn’t support your main sport. Individual sport may fare better where seams and levels are assessed.

Oh my goodness Heifer!

I can well believe that may pertain to county hockey selection where Sport England found that 92,700 women and girls were regularly participating in the sport in 2016. The comparable figure for girls and women in football was 1.84 million in 2016 - that's around twenty times higher.

They are really not relatable

My dd didn't opt to do PE, as it happens, but plays football at quite a high standard, and on her team, many - probably most of them are doing GCSE PE. Every week for 2 years, there have been parents trying to video, (for the opposition teams as well, quite often), as they can demonstrate their skills - or 'technique' as it says in the spec - much better whilst playing at this higher level, than they could in a staged match in school, where they just wouldn't be able to recreate the same level of play.
It isn't about 'comparing with boys', and I would certainly have had that discussion with the PE teacher, as it shouldn't actually be about comparing with anyone, whatever their sex, it is making judgements against the criteria set.

All that said, I'm so glad dd didn't do it - the filming has been a nightmare for the other parents.

Got to agree that County level sport doesn't always mean much. In hockey it's hard to get in to county level (Junior Academy Centre), when age 12-14 but buy the time they are 15/16 you don't have so many turning up so you could certainly be selected when you're not all that good (depends on the county obviously).

Some counties don’t set the bar as high as others. Not all trials for counties are identical. Any more than they are for clubs. These trials still have nothing to do with the GCSE. Yes, I do know what I’m talking about! If all county players were equal in terms of skill there would be no winners or losers when they play each other. Obviously some counties are weaker. Smaller ones must be at a disadvantage by sheer lack of numbers to choose from and even in larger counties, quality will depend on who is actually taking up the sport.

County players have to go through competitive trials. You can't be 'rubbish' and make the grade. You really don't sound like you have much of a clue

Who you play for is irrelevant. County or local club. As the teacher says above, it’s what you can do compared to the criteria to be assessed. A county team might be rubbish! Who knows. The boy footballer might just have better skills, whether he plays with men or not.

My dd got 18/20 for girls football.

It's a small independent school so there was no girls football in school but she has been playing for an external girls team since the age of 10.

She has also played for her county.

We submitted video evidence from training and actual match footage. Whilst 18/20 is a good mark we were marginally peed off (not enough to query it) she really is an exceptional footballer.

The boys on her PE course scored lower for football than her except one lad who got 19/20. He doesn't play county football - but plays for a typical Sunday league men's team. PE teacher was overly impressed that he was playing with adults (although he is 16 and 6 feet)

She got 19/20 for athletics but she did win medals in sprinting at the ISA National finals. She wasn't judged against boys for that (luckily no teenage Caster Semenyas as yet)

Her individual sport was trampolining - a mediocre 14/20 I think

This is the AQA board marking Scheme (page 116 for Rugby Union)
filestore.aqa.org.uk/resources/pe/specifications/AQA-8582-SP-2016.PDF
Hope it helps - it's helping me as DD will need to decide which 3 sports to pick so it will enable her see what she needs to do in each sport to get certain points.

If the school does not offer girls rugby, then your DD needs to be assessed via her club play. Which would be either by video, or - if this is still possible under the new spec - asking if the club she plays for has any coaches who are also secondary PE teachers who might be prepared to do the admin to assess the sport for a pupil at a different school to theirs.

She should still be able to get full marks for all the assessed criteria, which are more to do with knowledge, skill and attitude than sheer physical strength.

Not sure if you've found the answers yet, but wanted to help. I'm a secondary PE teacher.

All students performances are assessed against a set of criteria set by their exam board. If you speak to the PE teacher they should be able to give you a copy of the sports your child has chosen.

Rugby would work the same as something like Rounders (which can be taken by both sexes). She'll be asked to play a game (if she can't do that at school, you can submit video evidence for the teacher to watch), perform some drills and she'll be assessed on how well she performs. It isn't that she will be compared against the boys and not receive as high a mark at all. It might be the Teacher was expressing worries that she might not be able to play a competitive game in school due to lack of girls? And Health and Safety rules state she can't play with the boys.

If you find out her exam board, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to find out the sport specifications online.

Hope this helps.

I’m not sure if she’s doing AQA, but their full GCSE specification is on the web. It lists the permitted sports. For Rugby Union it clearly says they are assessing technique. It describes fully what technique is required to get the higher marks, and indeed the lower marks. This is surely treating students equally. If the boys display superior technique, you would have to live with that. It’s not about what level (county, school, club) you play either. That’s irrelevant. It’s about technique. If the technique isn’t there, then the higher marks cannot be attained, by anyone.

Can your DD be assessed in a girls’ match for her county/club? Does the school have a girls team? Whether it’s a boy or a girl displaying the skills makes no difference whatsoever. The teacher is an idiot. It’s not about relative strengths of boys and girls or comparing boys and girls. It’s about the assessment of Actual Demonstrated Skills and Technique and what marks these are awarded in the spec. The spec is illuminating so do read it even if it’s not your exam board. I can’t imagine there are wild differences between boards though.

At my daughters school the boys taking PE outnumbered girls about 3 or 4 to 1, so of course it was unfair that we weren't told how it was scored....the riding was easy peasy to score well in because it was very very basic level compared to the level she was riding at.

Not sure where from but I'm sure you can. As per my earlier post, I saw a couple of them pinned up - and I also know that DD's school checked the criteria when she was thinking of having ballet (standard v high so she's opted for a different subject altogether!). If you know the exam board, you should be able to google it.

Does anyone know if it is possible to get a copy of the assessment criteria for each sport?

I'm not sure that's the case (though perhaps all exam board do it differently).

I was waiting at DD's swimming leson this week somewhat bored while she changed and ended up reading the assessment criteia for swimming and hockey which were pinned up there. For hockey, to get a top grade on one aspect the wording was along the lines of: executes all moves proficiently and rarely loses the ball to other players. Surely that is judged against the other players in a single-sex match as it's usually played single-sex as is rugby?

It would seem grossly unfair otherwise (though that doesn't mean it isn't I guess.....)

So the fastest girl in the country at 800m say gets a lower score than the tenth fastest boy in the country because he’s faster than her?
That’s most definitely not fair or sensible.

If that's the rule, that's crazy. So in a co-ed state school, a girl who is at a high level could still get a low mark because she's not equal to the boys, but if she went to the girls only school down the road, she would be scored higher??? Surely that can't be possible.