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Original poster

Appeals - School is full?

32 replies

courderoy · 08/05/2018 18:31

Apologies for a question that I’m sure as been asked a lot (I did search first).

I have an appeal hearing in a weeks time. The school have sent information about how they are full.

A lot of it seems to be that they don’t have facilities for the PAN, so they can’t take on any more (eg they are 8 toilets short, they don’t have enough gas taps in the labs for one between 2, some classrooms are only big enough for 26)

They also say that they have 4 pupils on roll under the fair access protocol - although they aren’t over PAN in any year according to the roll details. They have given the Fair access protocol as a reason that they can’t take on another child - but presumably this takes a school’s circumstances and Number on roll into account?

The pupil - teacher ratio is lower than national average and lower than all the other local schools, yet they say that more kids will be detrimental for teachers and cause stress.

There have only been 2 successful appeals in the last 6 years, I am not at all confident and very very stressed.

Does anyone have any experience/ advice around whether I could argue that if they don’t have facilities for the PAN one more wont make a big difference!

I have reasons for the appeal by the way.

Thank you!

OP posts:
Clough1 · 10/05/2018 08:10

They have been decided as by following the code they have to notify within 5 days of the hearing and when I had a heated exchange with the local authority about it they clarified that the panel would be deciding by the end of the Tuesday. I intend on ringing our area office tomorrow to see how many of the 10 won.
Local authority really unhelpful, I asked when we would get our hearing and they said, “ the clerk and panel are really busy with other appeals so it will be when they can co-ordinate diaries!”
Very frustrated and don’t really know what to do?

prh47bridge · 10/05/2018 07:40

If the other appeals have actually been decided that is wrong. The appeal panel should have delayed any decisions until they had heard your case.

My view is that deferring your appeal on the basis that the head wanted more time was wrong. However, it is a much bigger problem if they have actually decided the other cases. If any of the other appeals have succeeded you may have been disadvantaged. And if your additional information does prove to the satisfaction of the appeal panel that the school can handle more pupils the other appellants may have been disadvantaged because this information was not available to the panel.

You need to find out urgently whether or not the other appeals have been decided.

Clough1 · 10/05/2018 06:34

Can anyone help or offer advice....
We were meant to have our school appeal on Tuesday. 10 other appeals were heard but ours wasn’t. 30 minutes before we were due to been seen we received a phone call from the local Authority saying the head teacher wanted more time with the additional information we sent in 6 days ago ( they allow 5 days, so we were within the time frame) and it wasn’t the appeal panel who wanted to defer.
The other appeals have been decided.
Has anyone else had any experience of this? We are now left in limbo just waiting to hear when we can have another hearing date but it seems unfair that they heard the other 10 appellants and not us.
The additional information I sent was proving the school had capacity to take more children and was quite conclusive.
Any ideas?

Original poster
courderoy · 09/05/2018 16:24

Thank you everyone. The language around the appeals process made me wonder if the onus was on me to question their case. As I’m not an expert in these things - and as presumably the school has the same case for each appeal, this seemed an odd way to work things.

I will concentrate on my position.

Thanks again

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 09/05/2018 08:27

You can point out that their teacher-pupil ratio is low to counter their argument about additional stress. But I certainly wouldn't use your suggested argument around PAN.

AornisHades · 08/05/2018 22:11

If you have reasons why it would be detrimental to your child not to go to that school, concentrate on those to build your case. In a straightforward "We're full" case I don't see the point in arguing over details. Accept they are full but make a good case as to why they should go over by one more for your child.

admission · 08/05/2018 21:42

I would not use that argument because the whole point is that the PAN is based on a calculation of net capacity, that assumes a level of space necessary for each pupil.

What you describe as their reasons for the school not taking any more pupils is what I will see in every appeal I sit on this year. Please do not assume that it is personal against you, the school has to show reason over and above admitting to the PAN. That is why they always talk about toilets etc, though I must admit the gas taps is a new one on me.
The Fair access protocol will be to other year groups in the school and it means they were admitted, as there was no other suitable school, when the school was at or above PAN in that year group. They have subsequently lost some pupils and that is why they at or below PAN in the older year groups. In fact FAP has no relevance to the appeal in year 7 as it is only to do with pupils who have no school place and are deemed to be hard to place. What you have is a straight forward admission appeal.
Go to the appeal, give it your best shot and walk out of the appeal knowing that you have done everything possible to gain a place at the school. Please try not to get too stressed about it, so I would write down everything you want to say at appeal to give you something to focus on, rather than being a quivering jelly.