Private School Worth It?

BubblesBuddy in London at least it has always been the case that middle class kids at state schools take less drugs than those at private schools. Don't ask me why-possibly because they don't regard the other pupils who take drugs as cool.

As regards private school pupils not using family connections to get into chosen careers, I suggest you look at research into where top lawyers, doctors, bankers, fund managers etc went to school. Private school pupils very often land plum jobs NOT because of any qualities acquired at school but because their parent has made a phone call or written to a friend/former colleague/client etc . And I speak as an ex private school pupil whose first job in the City -like many of my peers- came about through family connections . The tradition is still going strong although for PR purposes firms now have to pretend that selection is open and that they are doing their bit to encourage diversity...

Paying school fees for me is absolutely not about outcomes and results, it is about my children's overall experience of education. I want respectful, healthy teacher/pupil relationships, an environment where it is cool to achieve, opportunities for kids to engage in interests like drama/sport/music that keep them engaged in learning rather than looking for out of school alternatives and a place where different skills/abilities are respected. I want my kids to be encouraged to be the best they can be, whatever that looks like. I would love that to be possible without paying school fees but for my family fee paying has given us what we need where "free education" has not.

Itisonly - yes, yes, to the keeping them busy/ keeping them on track.

DS2 is a sort of 'middling' child - not very academic, but not failing by any means, however he is somewhat gullible/ easily led and can easily be distracted. Independent school has definitely kept him more focused and on track. I think if he'd gone to our (very good) local state school he probably would have got in with the 'coasting crowd' and been happy to scrape through his GCSEs, rather than aiming for higher grades (which is what is expected and is the norm at this current school).
Bristol's contextual offer list is bizarre! Our local sixth form college is on the list, yet is a highly regarded 'National Teaching School' and has been graded as 'outstanding' by Ofsted for the last 13 years

For us, it's mainly:

The extra curricular, DC being kept busy and having the ability to try a wide variety of sports, join clubs etc.

Bright but lazy DC who is currently coasting at the top end of primary.

We both work full time and have the opportunity for someone else to take the pressure off a bit. If only one of us was working then it would a different story, both in terms of having more time to make sure DC stays on track, being able cart them around everywhere and not being able to afford it.

Plenty of drug taking in the state grammars/secondaries around me too! It really is a widespread social problem and not just a richer child problem! It is ludicrous to say it is more prevalent in private schools.

My children went to private school and we have no family connections to anything! DD1 has done exceptionally well to get into her chosen career and it has ALL been down to her. I actually find it rather offensive when other people think we could have got her into her career! How? She needed the exams, the work experience (which she found), the credibility and expertise - not us. We do not have it. We gave her the tools to sort it out for herself.

Clavinova - nearly every house is over £1m in London!!! That does not mean you are wealthy I'm afraid. Some private schools do take on SEND pupils and do not expect to get high grades from these children. They provide a more enriching education.

However, I too have seen the Bristol list and I guess it one attempt to level the playing field but possibly includes too many schools. Another serial poster about Bristol thinks the contextual students are more likely to drop out anyway. No evidence for that, just a feeling! If it gives state school students a shout who may not have aspired to Bristol, then why not?

Private schools should never just be about adacemics. You should get a lot more for your money. I do not just mean flashy faciliites either. It is a fully rounded education with inspiration built in. If a private school does not offer this, it is not worth the money. Not all private schools get better grades because not all teachers in them are outstanding. However, parents tend to be ambitious for their children, they apply to the best universities and make very good choices on subjects. The children are encouraged to be confident which helps when getting a job.

Given that 7-8% of children go to private schools, one would expect the 92-3% in state schools to have more bright children within their overwhelming cohort. However, we all know that many of the better jobs go to privately educated people and they still dominate Oxbridge % wise. So some private schools do add something!

OP. To answer your original question. We have experience of both state secondary and independent secondary in an area known for good secondary schools, including grammar schools. Good points across each type but for us the private education has provided many, many more opportunities for arts, sports, music, drama as well as high levels of academic attainment. Extra subjects such as Classics available to all and more availability for some A level subjects compared with local grammar schools. Perhaps we were lucky but we found the quality of teaching much better with qualified teachers employed in all subjects. Longer school hours and due to the smaller classes, more attention given to each student.

As I said, perhaps we were lucky to find just the right independent school for our child. However, there are high fees and do not underestimate the increase per annum, which for us was at least 5%-6% per annum. There are large scholarships and some bursaries available although the students must keep up their high scores for these.

Why do you ask?

Hmm I would have to say that private schools are good at marketing themselves. IMO a lot of the qualities individuals have which are attributed to private schools actually come from their family background as the world over the rich are always more confident/arrogant etc. The networking and connections made tend also to be exaggerated since in my experience it is almost always family connections rather than school connections which land private pupils plum jobs etc.

For the academic education? No.

For the confidence, arrogance (not necessarily in a bad way, you just think you are better than everyone else and sometimes that is a great trait!), the networking, the connections, the opportunities? Absolutely.

MrsGuyOfGisbo -I would have to disagree with the second part of your comment that 'they may end up at the same uni as their friend from the comp, but their teenage years will be immeasurably better.' There has always been plenty of bullying, sex abuse and (in London at least) drug consumption at private schools. Indeed virtually all the people I know whose school experience left them traumatised attended private schools.

Completely off the thread so apologies OP but the Bristol list is odd, locally Wimbledon College School ( RC boys) is on it but Ursuline the girls equivalent isn't. Also Richmond and Kingston 6th form colleges are on it but Esher isn't. So if Bristol is your aim it would be much more sensible to attend a 6th form college from their list and get a discoubted offer regardles of what school you attended for most of your education. By 6th form it's pretty much down to the DCs themselves.
It does make you realise how much power the universities have as they could effectively bring down the private school system by offering grade discounts to everyone else.

Depends on the options and the child.
For our very bright but lacking in confidence dd the options were

1. Failing local comp which particularly fails high achievers
2. Grammar in the next town
3. Private ( non selective) 5 minutes walk from home where lots of kids are also local and theat achieves results similar to The Grammar with small classes, excellent pastoral care and an ethos which celebrates success. AND she was offered a part scholar.

Definitely worth it - on the absolute proviso your family life/finances do not suffer to the point your child is aware that their education means you can’t do x y z.
It’s definitely not about grades it’s about the much bigger picture. I’d also say state 6th Form college rubs along perfectly after an independent prep plus senior or even prep plus selective grammar. Lots of independently educated kids really appreciate a taste of state education at 6th Form and realise that good teachers are good teachers, regardless of the sector. State sector teachers have just the same issues as independent - students with poor work ethic, students with ridiculous aspirations, laziness and lack of parenting.

If you can afford it then yes, definitely.
Okay, they may end up at the same uni as their friend from the comp, but their teenage years will be immeasurably better. Forge the 'outcomes', and definitely forget Bristol! - you only have one chance to be a teenager and learn in an environment where other children are also there to learn and their parents are supportive.
I have seen this form both sides - as a parent and also as a teacher - it is a no-brainer.

re private schools on the list - that's just silly! I really wonder how Bristol chooses?

There are also private schools on the Bristol Contextual Offer list, btw.

Clavinova - well spotted! And really annoying. I just checked their list and it's strange what schools they include and which ones they don't. Maybe it's how hard heads push to be on the list?

I am surprised any Outstanding 6th form college students get contextual offers. These are usually reserved for the worst performing state schools that are unlikely to be outstanding

Me too - until I spotted Bristol University's Contextual Offer List for 2017/18 - including Balcarras, Barton Peverill, The Howard of Effingham, Kingsdale and Camden school for Girls under 'Aspiring Schools.' I know families with dc at 3 of those schools and they all live in homes worth over 1 million pounds - laughable really. Perhaps Bristol are regretting some of their previous contextual offers and making offers to much higher achievers on the sly? Or their data is wrong. Camden are boasting 74% of leavers to RG Unis on their website - why do they need contextual offers?

Depends on the child, really. I think a non fee-paying grammar will be as good in many ways, and I know my mum wishes my brother had gone to the grammar my sis and I went to rather than going to the same private school as our dad, as she felt it was an equally good education.

That said, private school excel at giving a sense of confidence (some will say 'entitlement') for boys, although I find not so much for girls IMO.

There's a lot more wiggle room for state school applicants if you miss your offer. DS's school admit that they get tough offers and if you miss them by a grade that's it and that they are not so tough on state school applicants. They are quite open about it and I think it will become more widely acknowledged over the next few years.
And if being at an Indy is pushing your results up by 0.6 of a grade, fair enough.

I am surprised any Outstanding 6th form college students get contextual offers. These are usually reserved for the worst performing state schools that are unlikely to be outstanding.

Agree with Wonderwine's post.
I would add that the most disapointed parents I have known are those who made huge financial sacrifices to move their DCs to Indys at 11+ instead of an oustanding local comp. It is5 years later when they are trailing around the same Unis as their state primary parents looking at the same courses to get higher offers that they start to wonder why they did it, particularly if a trickly adolescence meant that their DS has not performed as well at the chosen school as they would have expected. But I live in an area of very good state schools where friends DCs have done spectacularly well.
I still think preps are great though with their daily games afternoon and specialist coaching at a very young age, but I do have very sporty DCs.

What SoupDragon said...

But our experience:
Less worth it for highly academic, self-motivated kids who will probably end up doing well in exams anywhere
Less good for special educational needs, unless the school specialises in this area - provision is usually better in state.

As others have said, it may improve exam results by a grade. However DS (at top 30 independent school) has uni offers of AAA for Sept. If he'd gone to our local, outstanding 6th form college, would have got a contextual offer for the same course for ABB .

If you do it, do it for the small class sizes, extracurricular in sport, music, drama, debating etc. Don't assume it's an automatic ticket to 12A*s at GCSE and Oxbridge.

Sorry I should have said their DCs all settled in really well in their private schools rather than my friends as they are a bit too old..

As others have pointed out, the issue is not whether to go private or state but what your local options are. If you have a good -primary or secondary-state school on your doorstep , then don't waste your money. Its also generally easier to switch from state to private if things don't work out than the other way round ie if your local state school is way oversubscribed your DC will probably never get in whereas there is always a place at a private school somewhere , even in London. Indeed I have three or four friends who switched from state secondary to private in Year 7 and they all settled in really well in their private schools. Conversely I have known people who started in private schools and want to go state trapped as they didn't realise that they couldn't just waltz into their local state schools.