Private School Worth It?

Minapaws I totally agree with your experience.
My parents were on board. But the low expectations and aspirations was horrible. And my comp wasn’t even a bad one.
There were lots of clever kids that weren’t pushed there.

The contacts at private schools definitely are a big bonus! DS1 - just leaving Year 13 - did two weeks work experience in a tech company owned by a friend's Dad. Numerous dentists/medics/vets have shadowed other parents in their jobs.
Every year there is a massive alumni careers fair where parents and alumni from all sorts of different industries come to give talks and advice and many offer work experience. Then there's also the virtual network - the school Alumni & Friends LinkedIn group has several thousand members and branches in London, New York, Sydney etc.

To be fair though, the school opens up the careers evening to all state sixth forms and colleges in the local area, so the benefit isn't really exclusive to the school. Worth asking your local independent if they do the same - many of them do!

If I had the money I would definitely send my dd to a private secondary because of the smaller classes.

Thanks for your post redrubiesnmore!

For me, I think Private Schools are as much about the journey as they are about the destination.

My cheap 8 year old run around that we bought for cash from an insurance write off gets me everywhere I needed to be. In maybe 5 or 10 minutes slower than my husband's fancy company car.

If money wasn't an issue, then yes I would rather have the nice comfy journey with the sunroof, air conditioning, DAB radio and satnav.

If money is an issue, then no, it's not worth the monthly repayments to get to my destination a little quicker cos his car pulls away that bit quicker at the lights.

I'm happy with my daughter in private school. But we're glad she is enjoying the journey/experience as well cos we might be depressed if we thought we spent all this money for one extra point in grades.

I’m all for the DCs networking!!! It shouldn’t be down to parental contacts though - at least when it comes to getting a job.

Often school placements don’t lead to much but it’s different when you are at university. I agree Xenia - you have to make the effort yourself.

It's perfectly possible to make contacts. I teach my students how ot network. they always start out saying: I don't know anyone in our massiveky competitive oversubscribed field. and by the end of the workshop, they know exactly what to do and how to build a network of strong contacts. some do, some don't but it's absolutely doable. I did it, with zero connections, when I changed profession.

BB, yes. I think a lot o f people who cannot be bothered to get the best exam results in their schools and prizes at university and make loads of applications, and all the other stuff I did - 2 years volunteering in a law centre at univesrity whilst other people were getting drunk like just to sit back and say ah it's all about contacts so I've failed because I have non; when in fact loads and loads of people do well without using any contacts. Also it depends on the field - law has very competitive paid internships you apply for well in advance and at university. othe rjobs don't have the same systems so it's quite hard to generalise. This is not just about higher earning jobs either. Getting your son a job at the pit I am sure is what happened in my family in the 1800s and 1900s and there were travelling drapers in the family whose children became travelling drapers. Baker's son works in a bakery etc etc

Maybe I have no shame, but I have asked friends if DC (not student age but school age) can shadow them or try out work experience at their companies. All the cold-calling attempts to get work experience have come to nothing, even though DC have put massive effort into creating CVs and cover letters, individually tailored to the companies, and researched them well.

Asking for friends to help DC with work experience, I have always been met with positive, helpful responses. I think they prefer to have work experience people who they know slightly, who they can give honest feedback to via the family. But I don't think you have to be at private school for that to work. Just contact anyone you know in a field related to what DC are interested in. And offer them a favour in return.

I have seen internships offered as prizes in silent auctions. They make a lot of money for the schools! Sometimes life isn’t as fair as it should be! Mostly it’s on merit but a lot of it comes down to preparation and understanding how to compete, not just what you know.

Some schools and parents are not really interested in this and will take what comes with the least effort and then complain about others who get on because they have realised what is needed.

I was cross recently when a friend suggested my DD had succeeded because she must have known someone to help her in her chosen career. It’s a widely held belief that the recruitment process must involve you “knowing someone”. I had to explain that we know no-one! She had no “insider” help at all. It’s infuruating when someone thinks your child couldn’t be where they are without knowing someone who gave them the inside track. I found it a bit offensive really!

Xenia - I don't know how you would go about asking someone to take your student child. Wouldn't it look a bit silly particularly as the better jobs have strict recruitment processes and paid internships with formal application processes?

I would suggest (at a parents' event) "DC is thinking about doing an internship in XYZ industry. Oh, you're in that field, aren't you? Would you mind terribly forwarding his/her CV to the right person in your HR department?"

When a CV arrives at HR from inside the company, it usually gets a deeper look than one that arrives over the internet or via post. Particularly if it is coming from a higher-up at the company. Even more so if it arrives in the inbox of the head of HR. This may not automatically result in a position, but it will very likely result in an interview if a position is open.

I suppose it depends on the industry and things like catering and TV companies are more informal than some of the professions.

Getting an opportunity to showcase yourself is half the battle of getting a position. I believe this to be true in pretty much all industries. I know this to be true in several global finance, law and accounting firms whose names most people have heard of.

Although I don't know how you would go about asking someone to take your student child. Wouldn't it look a bit silly particularly as the better jobs have strict recruitment processes and paid internships with formal application processes? I suppose it depends on the industry and things like catering and TV companies are more informal than some of the professions. I know quite a lot of people in all kinds of industries but it would be a massivec admission of child inadequacy to ask them for help even if they were able to give it for a student child to get a job.

Ah, I forgot about the gap yahs! Oh well, I hope the big corps are changing.,,,

It'sonlyhearsay it's not over in my school! It is a benefit- talking about A level age students too.
We have the child of a famous TV presenter at our school. The presenter works on a very popular tv show and arranged work experience for two of our pupils on this show. They have since been offered 'runner' jobs with the show in their gap years. This is a benefit of having the children of wealthy people at the school.
It's not fair but it's absolutely still happening

I'm not sure it's true that bright pupils get great grades wherever they go. I didn't. I got lousy grades at my comp and it wasn't until I met a boy from a private shcool with higher aspirations in life, who suggested I was really clever and could do something about it, that I got a private tutor and ended up passing Oxbridge. If I'd not met him I'd not even have thought of applying. At my comp, aspirations were really low. Teachers lacked confidence, and pupils scorned academic achievement. I fell in line with that to avoid being bullied. That's why my DC go to a private school now. I found that pride in low attainment so demoralising as a teenager and it held me back for decades. I know not all state schools have this ethos, and that if parents are on board then pupils will thrive. But even though my parents were partly on board, I didn't thrive academically. It's more complex than the myth that bright children succeed wherever they go.

Itsonlyhearsay, I think it would be naive to think the 'leg up' doesn't happen any more. If you are a private dentist, for example, it's easier to offer a couple of weeks experience to a child you already know the parents of from school or who may have been in your child's class (so you know the child themselves).

Tomhazard, pls could you explain something. Why would a "leg-up" be of benefit at secondary school? Surely it's during / after uni that it would be of benefit? Also, I thought companies today (well, mine at least) were / had to be fairer when selecting for work experience? I thought the days of the CEO getting 2 weeks work experience did his 'super-confident, precocious privately educated nephew' were over??

I work in a private school and I know many privately educated people. I used to work state and my DC attend state primaries at the moment.

The teaching is not better - the teachers are however less monitored whilst still expected to get good results. They are more trusted therefore less stressed. Their classes are smaller so they have more time for individuals and chasing up their work.

Many students do not come out with grades wildly different from what they would have got in a good state school (in my opinion). What they do get, however, is confidence and more importantly contacts. Their parents have contacts, their friends parents have contacts and the school had well known alumni that link to the school.
In my school we have the child of famous restaurant chain owners and people well known in their fields who give their children's friends leg ups all the time. I used to believe it wasn't really true but having worked there a few years now I have seen it a number of times!

So, I think on balance you would help your child in many ways but their grades may not be much higher.

Friend “ I’m not going to work hard any more, I don’t want to be one of the smart kids, I want to be one of the cool kids”
Dd “ they’re the same thing at my school “

Absolutely. Anyone who knows anything about adolescent psychology knows that peer group influences are incredibly important. That's the reason why aspirational non-selective state schools like Michaela put such an enormous emphasis on creating a culture where all the pupils "buy in" to the importance of good behaviour, hard work, and acquiring lots of academic knowledge and skills.

Whatever people may think about the way they go about it, it's difficult to deny the importance of such a culture when it comes to helping all children achieve their potential. And as I said above, the ceiling effect and the prevalence cheating on coursework (until this year) means that many children who have got A*s at GCSEs (particularly in humanities subjects) may well have not learned enough to allow them to achieve their potential at A level and university.

Dd summed up for us why we are paying for her to go Private rather than the local comp
I heard her speaking to a friend at the local Comp ( which has been rated inadequate)
Friend “ I’m not going to work hard any more, I don’t want to be one of the smart kids, I want to be one of the cool kids”
Dd “ they’re the same thing at my school “

Disclaimer - only necessarily applies to the 2 schools on offer to us!

Yes, people pay for very different things although some tend to be commonly desired - relatively quiet classes so children can concentrate and hopefully a fairly academic atmosphere with a cohort who will mostly go to good universities (as a good few teenagers copy their peers and ignore their parents). I liked single sex schooling which I agree is not for everyone. It was not top of my list however. There are lots of reasons I paid fees (I say pay as I started in 1987 and stopped last year when the twins left for university so I've had a veyr long period of school fee paying and now morphed into university fee paying......) Classical music was important for us too and would not be for a lot of other people so it just varies. Some people want children in total freedom like Summhill with no obligation to attend classes or they want boarding from age 7 or they want a specialist music school like Chetham's.

One of the reasons we considered paying was to avoid single sex education especially for DS. Luckily, he managed to get a place at an excellent co-ed grammar nearby.
It just shows that people pay for different things. We have friends who opted to pay to avoid the church school they were allocated.

Another factor is whether you want a mixed schools. All the private schools round here are separate girls or boys which is enough to make me think twice. A Co ed private school would be more attractive to me, but without that option, I'd go state. I do agree it depends if you DC is naturally academic and motivated.

@letstalk2000, yes, it has gone from being the local girls’ grammar to being the one that all the highest achieving girls within a 10mile radius want.
However, it isn’t technically a super selective because it still operates strictly on a catchment basis so the furthest place offered will be about 6miles away. But of course, that 6mile radius is stuffed full of high achieving girls from very privileged homes. The boys grammar take something like the top 20% regardless of where they live and the rest are the highest achieving local boys. Interestingly, despite being more selective based on ability, the girls’ school far out performs them being one of the highest achieving in the country.

The primaries feed into both. Lots of parents and kids opt for the reasonably high achieving comprehensive close by. GCSE A*-C inc E&M is around 75%.

Stockport is the other close by LA with lower levels of FSM. But Stockport is very polarised where you’ll find like here, virtually 0% in quite a few primaries in South Stockport whereas N Stockport is fairly deprived. Stockport has something like 12% using the private sector though so results at their state secondaries suffer from that.