Maths teachers should be paid more than PE teachers

I think some people could earn more outside teaching but not necessarily a better overall package. I think the ones that can don’t go into teaching in the first place because their personalities are just not a good fit. I do wonder where all these high paid jobs are that mean instant riches? Most of the secondary heads around here get over £100k. Some £120k plus. Not too shabby!

paying more to some people for doing the exact same job with the same contract, the same hours ... not entirely ethical?

Isn’t this done already with the pay scales? Someone on M6 gets more than someone on M2, with no change in role or responsibilities.

I think a school having clear pay (rather than hidden by made up TLRs) for shortage subjects should be considered. I teach physics and could earn significantly more outside of teaching. Pay wasn’t the main driver for me but is for others, not just graduates but also career changers, who bring a lot of valuable experience.

Moosemousse - you're a fool or just biased or both

teaching maths is harder than some subjects = more teacher resentment.

how is that being a collective community if you are selling out the front line tougher subjects exactly? you must be an art or history teacher i'm guessing.

in that case why don't you pay your cleaner at home the same as you get paid? come on in it together...exactly didn't think so.

“allows a good mathematician to spend more time teaching FM and STEP to able pupils, quite different to helping a discouraged pupil to get their all-important GCSE pass. “
The distinction between being a good mathematician and a good teacher. A passion for maths v a passion for teaching. There will be big variances in how far they coincide.

Same for all subjects, I imagine.

I couldn't help but pick up on all SLT deserve thanks but only the vast majority of teachers !

Really, they shouldn't be working til midnight. that's inefficient as much as anything else!

Perhaps as governor you could suggest pay rises!

But I would say lots of governors do fall for the SLT narrative which comes from..... SLT!

I'm not sure what kind of school you are in, but at my place the deputy heads earn £75000. That's a lot of money. I am not sure they would earn as much as much elsewhere always.

I honestly don't think the meetings are necessary. they certainly don't happen in the school I work in.

I am a parent governor as it goes, so my focus is mainly on parental satisfaction.

those governors call constant meetings with middle leaders which uses time and produces admin

Yeah, maybe they should just sit back and assume everything is fine. That would help.

Hopefully you're feeding in alternative suggestions for effective governance.

They are also paid a lot

No, they're not paid a lot compared to what they could be earning in a less stressful managerial job elsewhere.

Our SLT are regularly working until midnight and rarely take a break during school holidays. They all deserve thanks (and big pay rises if there was any money for it) as do the vast majority of the teachers.

noble by the way, I saw a poll last week about experiences of part time work for teachers of a specific age , which I now can't remember. But if you google a bit you might find it. It's that organisation that focuses on progression for women who take maternity leave.

And you do sound rather like an SLT apologist! They obviously work long hours. They are also paid a lot. And they should always be considering whether their hard work increases lesser paid staff's workloads all the time!

Getting down off soapbox...

Sorry yagotta but based on actual experiences from both sides, I beg to differ. My school where I am a governor does care and has just drawn up a wonderful wellbeing policy but at the same time, in a keenness to 'learn' those governors call constant meetings with middle leaders which uses time and produces admin. Do you really think an anxious middle leader would either relish that meeting, or be honest in it? Since we got a new head at my governing school, I feel he has been increasing workload and pressure and I think the governors have fallen for it.

The part-time teachers I know (socially) are happy with their work-life balance.

The SLT at the school where I govern work stupidly long hours, and part time staff make an already difficult timetabling job even more difficult. They would prefer not to have them, but it's that or nothing in some subjects.

I don't think governors are generally naive about how hard teachers work or what a difficult job it is.

ps noble there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be lazing about!

It's not just noble and I do find school governors often think they really know how things work in schools and how their staff feel, stating that their staff are 'happy' : to be honest, you don't hear the staffroom ranting. I say this because I am both a teacher and a governor and sometimes non teaching governors say things that make me remembers I have governors meeting tonight at which I plan to challenge lesson grading

Part time teachers in my school (or at least department) are shat on from a great height. They made the choice to be part time , true :and actually the ones I work with tend not to mark on their day off because they are with their young children, but I know the older part timers do. But their timetables are awful and they are thoroughly sidelined. To be fair to our school, we do have a part time SLT member.

I’ve been part time for about 8 years

Well I guess that explains why you've got so much time for mumsnetting

I'm sorry you feel you're treated as second-class. Maybe you should move schools. I know where there's a part-time job being advertised.

What would make me apply to the state sector? I'm not in it for the money, that's for sure. I'd take the £22k if I thought I wouldn't be under so much stress with workload

Don't kid yourself that there will be less stress in the independent sector. Teachers there can expected to answer emails from parents 24-7, run multiple out-of-school clubs, and of course deliver fantastic results, so that parents get a demonstrable return on their "investment". They also don't necessarily get paid much more (though presumably they have more freedom to pay teachers in hard-to-recruit subjects more). You will also find it hard to move into the state sector if you change your mind later - some of our worst ever teaching candidates have been from independent schools. I remember one (a PE teacher) who literally sat there and said she'd never really had to deal with discipline issues because there were always 3 teachers to a class of 30, and the lead teacher was very strict so she normally did the 'bad cop' disciplining while the other 2 teachers rolled their eyes at each other about how she was handling the situation.

When I did my PGCE my uni wouldn't place anyone in private schools and my tutor didn't write references to them. It was fully expected you were training to enter the state system. No fees or loans in those days...

What do you think my role is?

You're a maths teacher, head of department iirc, yes?

I'm doing my PGCE in September. I'm really seriously considering trying to go into teaching in independent schools right from NQT.

A loan repayment scheme wouldn't change that. It's not 9% of salary. It's 9% of anything above £25,000. Given that M1 is £22,000ish, it doesn't mean that much.

What would make me apply to the state sector? I'm not in it for the money, that's for sure. I'd take the £22k if I thought I wouldn't be under so much stress with workload.

As it stands at the moment, if I teach in a state school it'll be on a term by term basis with an eye on my mental health.

a lot of part time teachers go part time so that they can do their marking on their day off, because the full-time job isn’t doable any more

You believe too many headlines generated by teaching union conference speeches.

The teachers who are going part-time at our school are going part-time because they are either returning from maternity leave, or returning to teaching after a more extended break to raise a family and still have young children. In one case the applicant was refused permission from her current school (an independent) to go part-time.

If they later want to go full time, then I'm sure the school will be very happy to accommodate that, but in the meantime they will be treated with as much respect as any other teacher, and given that they are all very experienced teachers from very-hard-to-recruit subjects the school is likely to bend over backwards to keep them happy.

be treated like a second class teacher
If anyone treated me as a second-class employee it would be against my employer's equality policy. I hope you don't treat part-time teachers at your school as second class!