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Original poster

Can the school ask for this much medical info?

37 replies

Verbena37 · 28/03/2018 12:42

Going to try not to make this too outing and have mentioned DD’s med issues in another thread but now she is recovered, I’m hoping to ask a quick question.

So her current attendance is 77%, having had it down at low 60’s before Christmas....when she had been long term poorly with pretty much in’own illness since last summer.
Now, with only a couple of months left until after GCSEs, she will only be able to make it to around 85% if she attends every day.

However, following a meeting with school, they’ve said that even if she is off for one single day, I have to take her to the GP for a doctors note/evidence she is ill.

At no time have the school not authorised her absences and I’ve sent in three hospital consultant letters (not the result letters) showing our concern regarding dd’s health. DD is a really conscientious student, predicted high 8’s for GCSEs. Since her pre-Christmas mocks, where she didn’t do as well as she hoped (but didn’t fail any), she has already in the last set of mocks just completed, gone up 2 grades in maths, 3 grades in French, still got a 7 for biology and a 6 for physics compared to the 5 before xmas.

At the school attendance meeting, I was asked straight away to give details of dd’s illness and I told them much more medical information than I believed I had to. Obviously, they wanted to outline what I should do if DD was too ill to come in for any actual GCSE exams and of course, if she was too ill to get out of bed, I’d have to go and get a GP note on the day.

Other than that though, now she is better from the block of long illness before Christmas and the Feb half term illness (that was totally unrelated), I don’t feel that if she was ill between now and the exams that I would need to take her to the GP for example one 12 hour vomiting bug. They are saying I would. Just because she has low attendance from previous illness, is it fair of them to clump future illness together in that and demand a gp note?

School said if it was a staff member with that much sickness they’d have to explain.
However, at no time, has DD been off for more than a few consecutive days and only twice was off for 5 in a row (after which you would then need a GP note).

OP posts:
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zzzzz · 28/03/2018 21:40

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SouthWestmom · 28/03/2018 21:27

The safeguarding thing isn't the time off itself. It's that

A) parents can ask for things like don't feed him (daniel pelka) because of a medical issue - more awareness of the need for professional advice ; this could also apply to things like being made to wear coloured lenses or use certain equipment.

B) time off in a regular pattern can indicate things like abuse being covered up (eg bruising going down) or caring duties that aren't well supported.

I think that's why it's coming up ?

Original poster
Verbena37 · 28/03/2018 21:20

Thank you for those last 2 posts. That makes me feel better.
School have never said anything about it being a safeguarding issue because they know it isn’t.

DD hates being off school and when she was ill, she was trying to get out of bed, then going dizzy and having to get back in again. She had regular nightly fevers, felt nauseous/vomited whenever she ate and so lost quite a lot of weight. She cried with guilt for being off and said school would be cross with her. Yet she was just too ill to go in.

OP posts:
Original poster
Verbena37 · 28/03/2018 21:12

nosey sorry but you’ve misunderstood.
I said before upthread that I have told them everything about the autumn illness that they to know.

There was no official diagnosis other than an immune issue (don’t want to elaborate on here) and it’s that immune issue that could have caused her to have the prolonged illness....or it may not.

I’m sketchy because there wasn’t a diagnosis of the illness made. Both consultants said it could be a condition relating to something in her diet and so we cut that out for 3 months. It doesn’t seem to be that.

If you’ve ever had, or known anybody who has had ME or glandular fever, I guess her symptoms were most like that with the added stomach/nausea issues.

Anyway, she no longer had those symptoms past xmas and her % went up.....then she got a bug the week after Feb half term. Everybody in town had it and school said they knew that.

I’m not going to worry. I’m crossing my fingers she stays well.

My post was more out of interest about the legality of being asked by a school for medical stuff in detail.

Thanks everyone.

OP posts:
isittimetogotobed · 28/03/2018 21:05

This is nothing to do with safeguarding and is not a safeguarding issue, if they have an issues they can refer to their own missing form education policy and follow that.you have provided evidence and you daughter is approaching then end of her school career.
I would be clear and tell them I have advised them of the conditions and already provided medical letters so they will not be receiving 'proof' of any further illness. To his this behind safeguarding is ridiculous.

If they have safeguarding concerns it need to be based on more that a teenagers low attendance following medical letters having been provided.

Blimey some people get half a days 'safeguarding' training and think they know it all but seriously!
Let's just take a step back an assess the 'risk' here. There isn't any

FancyNewBeesly · 28/03/2018 20:58

Christ. I missed a lot of school due to pelvic pain. I wasn’t diagnosed with anything until I was 22, and certainly wasn’t seen by a gynaecologist until I was past 18. GPs kept fobbing me off telling me it was normal.

Years on, it took a similar amount of time to get a diagnosis of ME.

It’s not at all uncommon to have debilitating health issues and no formal diagnosis for a long time, if ever.

Are school children covered by the Equality Act? If so, ask if they have an Occupational Health doctor they want her to see, who can confirm that she would be covered. Absences related to disability (or rather disability for the purposes of the Act) should not be included in general sickness procedures such as demanding certification, if I remember correctly.

bonnyshide · 28/03/2018 20:55

It's very doubtful she will achieve the 8's she's been predicted with such poor attendance.

OptimisticHamster · 28/03/2018 20:49

Not that you asked for diagnosis but did they consider abdominal migraines?

noblegiraffe · 28/03/2018 20:47

Loads of schools do this. It really isn’t due to safeguarding or whatever, it’s just a policy rolled out whenever a kid looks like they’re having too many days off sick and they want to pressure the parent to send the kid in instead.

See this thread here, for example: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3030135-To-be-angry-at-Children-Sick-Notes

DullAndOld · 28/03/2018 20:37

Nosey - stop scaremongering - they are not going to 'escalate to childrens services' for a 16 year old with a medical condition and low attendance are they?
no. How silly.

TheNoseyProject · 28/03/2018 20:32

The law is a very low bar. They can request info they think it’s pertinent to their safeguarding policies. You can refuse but they may escalate to children’s services depending on how they assess the level of risk. That might be helpful or it might not be.

TheNoseyProject · 28/03/2018 20:29

You can see there position a bit can’t you op? I mean it sounds odd. Your dd has missed on average over 1.5 days of school per week and you will only tell them about symptoms and, from what I’ve read here, can’t point to anything saying what’s wrong with her and won’t give them any details about her illness apart from broad brush and can’t say how it’s going to be managed. You can see why they’d regard that with suspicion.

Also the text you quote above is about retrospective medical letters. Your school is asking for evidence at the time of illness. As in she wakes up and is ill so you take her to drs then and there. Nothing retrospective about it.

The school at clearly regarding it as on ongoing condition, you seem to be suggesting there can be no paper trail as it’s not ongoing (ie every trip to the drs would be unrelated to the last) but also saying she’s seeing consultants.

I can see why they are seeking clarity on what’s going on.

Original poster
Verbena37 · 28/03/2018 20:28

I haven’t hidden anything from them at all at any time and of course I know they’re concerned about the time away ill. I didn’t though show them the outcome of dd’s appointments because she didn’t want them to know her medical details. There was no official diagnosis found as to why she was feeling so poorly.

I just meant that officially, surely they don’t have a legal right to make me tell them what is wrong with her.

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SouthWestmom · 28/03/2018 20:20

What do you mean by medical confidentiality? Because it sounds as though you are being awkward and hiding behind it a bit?

The school have to keep her info confidential although could share it to support her - eg
tell a TA who may need to help a child with changing due to continence issues.

Do you mean her right to confidentiality means the school shouldn't know?

Wolfiefan · 28/03/2018 20:16

When I was teaching we had to have actual written letters. We also had to keep them for quite a long period of time. The school aren't being awkward. They are concerned about your child having such a lot of time away from school.

Original poster
Verbena37 · 28/03/2018 20:14

After a while of ringing everyday, I also wrote in on their absence reporting page.
Pretty sure due to medical confidentiality, I only officially have to say she is off poorly....even though I always went into much more detail another the symptoms.

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 28/03/2018 20:09

Ringing everyday is good. The letters themselves don't explain why she was off. You should write yourself explaining each absence.

SouthWestmom · 28/03/2018 19:55

That's not really relevant though; it's saying you don't need a GP letter for exam consideration if you miss one.

From what you've written, she's missed random days/periods for two separate types of illness, and had a blood test showing an unrelated condition (anaemia?)

You've not shown any explanation to the school, just appointment letters.

I agree with a pp that increased awareness around safeguarding means schools won't just take a parents' word for it that their child is missing school regularly for an illness after a certain amount of time.

Original poster
Verbena37 · 28/03/2018 19:00

Aha, just found this on the BMA website...

‘It should be noted that GPs do not provide sick notes for schoolchildren. When children are absent from school owing to illness, schools may request a letter from a parent or guardian, and this is no different during an exam period. However, children who have missed exams due to illness are frequently told by schools that a note from a doctor is required; but this cannot be provided by a GP. Aside from the fact that parents/guardians are responsible for excusing their children from school, GPs cannot provide retrospective sickness certification. When a child suffers from a long-term condition, any certification will be provided by the responsible specialist.

GPC has sought and received confirmation from the Office of the Qualifications and Examinations Regulator that Awarding Organisations make no requirement for pupils to obtain a medical certificate in support of their application for special consideration. Students are asked for information in support of their application, but this may take the form of a statement by the school. The Joint Council for Qualifications has confirmed that as far as they are concerned, if a student was absent from an examination as a result of illness and has the support of the school or centre to be absent, special consideration will be granted on that basis. Awarding organisations do not insist that medical proof is provided.’

OP posts:
DullAndOld · 28/03/2018 18:56

tell them to refer you to the EWO then.
People's medical stuff is confidential.

Original poster
Verbena37 · 28/03/2018 18:53

But i did give her symptoms.
The hospitals only found one specific thing which may have caused her to be ill and that wasn’t the illness itself. I explained this condition to school. I showed them the blood test results with that condition on.

mushroom I understand it’s rare but obviously not impossible. Until her illness she had a really good attendance record throughout primary and secondary. She really isn’t ill very often.

Anyway, I just wondered legally about the medical info and I’ll look at the BMA stuff arnold posted.

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MushroomSoup · 28/03/2018 18:48

I have a school with 500+ students and only about 6 have attendance lower than 80%. It really is unusual. It’s even more unusual to have low attendance for medical reasons with no actual medical reason given!

Original poster
Verbena37 · 28/03/2018 18:36

Reinette but it wasn’t/isn’t safeguarding. She wasnt refusing to go to school at all. She was genuinely poorly on and off for the whole of autumn/winter term.

wolfie I rang in every day explaining that she was poorly with the same symptoms she had had before and had letters explaining visits for bloods to be taken.

I told school at the meeting I had made sure to book dd out of school for blood tests/consultant appointments either first thing in the morning or from lunch time so as she didn’t miss as much school and the school said I should have taken her later so she was registered as there first thing or to wait until after lunch registration so she was marked as there. I didn’t realise that.

arnold thank you. I will check out the letter. Very helpful.

thelastsoala dd wasn’t seriously ill. She was very poorly sporadically throughout the whole term. Imagine symptoms like ME but also with stomach pain and vomiting/prolonged nausea. These would come and go. Sometimes she was off for one day or sometimes 3. It was random.

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TheLastSoala · 28/03/2018 18:12

This all feels very odd.

Do you have a letter from a doctor stating that your DD has been seriously ill? Without one, I can understand why the school have concerns (whether right or not).

I missed huge chunks of school during my GCSEs and A Levels, I’m sure I didn’t give intimate details, but my parents would have told them roughly what was going on so that they were able to care for me once back at school.

SouthWestmom · 28/03/2018 18:09

I can't see any of the EWOs i meet accepting a doctored appointment letter and no confirmation of diagnosis.