Allocation of school places, can someone explain this for me!

In my LEA, I believe our schools were told what order we had placed our preferences at some point

The school may be told what preference they were after places are allocated. If the school is its own admission authority (most secondary schools are) they must not be given that information before places are allocated.

I guess it makes schools look good if they have a lot of first preference applications, and to some extent it might not be intentional, jut a woeful lack of knowledge when in fact they should have some idea.

What benefit is there to all these headteachers who lie about you needing to put their school first? Assuming they're fully subscribed anyway (which they are or you wouldn't be having the conversation) there's no gain for them whether you put them 1st or 4th.

The school has nothing to do with it. The places are sorted by the lea. Put the one you want first as your first choice

Yes, I know someone last year (different school) who got the welcome pack from the school on allocation day!

I'm probably more nervous about the waitlist thing, as our Council just moves you without giving you a choice between the waitlist school or the one you've accepted (I have heard on here from an expert that they shouldn't do that but they do) and at some point, it's going to be better for my rather anxious DD to know where she's going. She does like the waitlist school so it was worth trying. It was very oversubscribed so I'm not holding my breath!

I agree that you need to read all the documentation from the Council about the admissions process very carefully because it does differ between Councils. For instance, if you miss out on your first preference some Councils will automatically put you on a waiting list - mine doesn't and I had to formally ask to be put on the list. The guidance also states that the schools do not know where you have put them on the preference list, obviously that differs too because people on the thread have said their schools do know.

I also got a letter explaining why DD didn't get her first preference (although speaking to the admissions office was more helpful in pinning down the reason which was distance) and that went through the next stages of accepting the place we were given, going on a waiting list, etc.

Although we did accept her second place option, the school have never contacted us to say welcome - I was quite surprised. I am wondering when they will or if I will have to ask them!

We should hear in a few days if she has a place at her first choice or where we are on the waiting list.

@criminallyInane

schools regularly lie to parents at open evenings and say 'put us first to guarantee a place'

Really? I've never heard anyone at a school open evening say that in recent years.

Sadly I heard this the first time I went to DD’s school open evening to look around. It was the Headmaster who said it in his talk. So wrong! That was two years ago and luckily the Headmaster changed the year after as not much faith in one that blatantly lies (after all as Head he should at least know basic admission rules imo).

put us first to maximise your chances (obviously that was incorrect info)

That is correct info. If you put your top choice at number 2 or 5 or wherever, you could be assigned school number 1 if you meet the criteria even though it's not actually your top choice.

Obviously, though, school allocations are based on clear criteria (like looked after children, siblings or distance from the school) so if you live further away than other applicants, you won't be offered a place.

Yes so effectively, the school you really want and have listed 1st May have a place come up but if another family have listed it last and don’t really want it, they’d still be offered it over you if they are further up the criteria (often because they live closer)

PPs are all correct as to how it works.

I understand your frustration though! We have our third choice school. Our first choice school, which we are appealing for, had 182 first preferences for a PAN of 180. Neighbouring schools to our first choice school had 250-300+ first preferences also for a PAN of 180. So therefore it's quite clear that a large proportion of people who have been allocated our first choice school did not have it as their first! And funnily enough, there's over 600 first preferences for our allocated - third choice - school. I'd love to give our place to one of those. It's just down to how the rules are applied and even though it has worked against us on this occasion, it is the fairest way.

We missed out by under 100m in the first round. Whilst it's good for the waiting list - that didn't move last year - it makes no difference to appeals (annoyingly!) as people ten miles further out have the same chance as us now. Fortunately we also have a change in circumstances and a strong reason for social needs (and some academic stuff) to support our appeal. Although our allocated school is seemingly more popular, the other one suits her personality far better.

Good luck with your appeal!

I also think this is something parents should research before applying, this all seems a bit late to be realising.

OP I don't want to sound harsh here, this is meant as genuine support, but I would say that if you don't understand how schools admissions work them you will be at a big disadvantage at appeal.

There are lots of people who are confused by the system, so there's no shame in that, but in order to have a chance of success at appeal, you need to have very clear, strong arguments and a good understanding of the grounds on which you are appealing.

Oh I see Teen. I didn't realise that they all went into a big hat at the same time. That makes sense!

Believe it or not I am quite clever but even I feel pretty stupid sometimes getting my head around this stuff!

All this stuff though is always (or in everything I’ve seem at least) very clearly set out in the council admissions documents if you read it. The fact that you didn’t read or understand it isn’t going to be enough for an appeal.

My dd's friend (no older sibling) got a place at this school even though it was her 2nd choice. Try as I might, I can't understand how this is possible when it's a lottery system and there are soooo many first choice preferences for that school but it was her 2nd choice?

Because she was one of the first 90 names out of the hat for school 2, but didn't qualify for school 1. They aren't allowed to only put the children in the draw who put the school first. They have to put all the applications in the draw.

I was told by two head teachers when I looked for dd in 2016 that we 'had to put them first choice in order to even stand a chance of a place" - it's still info often given out.

In my LEA, I believe our schools were told what order we had placed our preferences at some point. My dd got her second place school and we couldn't make an acceptance by email. I had to wait for a letter in the post. The letter came with a whole heap of info, including a letter from our allocated school saying they were aware it wasn't her first choice but welcoming her to the school and hoping she'd take up the place. People tell me the schools don't know but I didn't dream the letter.

Also one thing that's always confused me is in our city, there is a very sought after school that has on average about 2000 applications for 90 places each year. They allocate their places via a lottery. So no distance criteria, just looked after children and siblings. My dd's friend (no older sibling) got a place at this school even though it was her 2nd choice. Try as I might, I can't understand how this is possible when it's a lottery system and there are soooo many first choice preferences for that school but it was her 2nd choice?

Anyway, there are so many misconceptions and confusions around place allocations. I think it's high time there were some national ad campaigns around October every year. Only this year in my ds's Primary one school Mum friend was in tears in place allocation day as she'd only put down one school because she thought they'd have no option but to give her that school and had found out the hard way.

This is all correct, except schools do know which preference you've given them (or they do in my LA). They don't take much notice of it, but it's there on the info the school gets from the LA.

I don't think that's misleading of the school to say it maximises your chances, it does make sense to put the schools down in the order that you want them.

If you are trying to check distance, tbh I'd say it's unlikely they are measuring it wrongly and if they are, then there's probably a lot of other people who would come under the same mistake!

Our first school (now waiting list) is much closer than the school allocated for DD (we have accepted) but they were so popular that the last distance admitted is closer than us.

Good to hear you've got other things to use. Good luck.