Whitgift VS Oustanding State School

You need to think carefully about your circumstances and what would be best. Money is definitely a factor and it is wrong to say that it is selling a child short to send them to a state school if private has offered. If paying fees would change your life style significantly it is not worth it - a few sacrifices are fine, but never having a holiday and not being able to put into your pension or worrying about replacing your car - these are sacrifices not worth it, when there is a good Comp available. So think carefully and bear in mind the fees are likely to increase by 5% each year and the end fees in 7 years time maybe 50% more than they are now.

And consider your son. He's not superbright, from the sound of it - he's not top set even in his primary, didn't pass the Grammars. He got a Whitgift offer without a scholarship (presumably) so I'd say that makes him reasonably bright, not superbright (please don't be offended by these comments) - chances are he wouldn't be top set in either school. Question is, what is he like? Will he sink and fall to the lowest common denominator in the Comp? Or will he be hard working and make the most of the opportunities which will undoubtedly be there for those who work hard? Whitgift are less likely to allow a reasonably bright boy to sink and chivvy him more. He might or might not need that, but it's a luxury not everyone can have.

You and your DH need to be united in your choice. Don't be sucked in by the fab Whitgift facilities - in the end, although lovely to have, much of it is window dressing and a good education can be had without the window dressing - it's only really worth it if you have pots and piots of money and won't see much sacrifice. If DH is worried about the cost, listen and don't feel choosing state is selling child short. As lots of people say, LOADS of kids do fantastically well at state schools and some do better than those in independent schools.

It does depend on the state school of course. Sadly they are not all equal. What are the results like for the school in question? What % of kids started the school as low, middle and high attainers in the DfE tables showing last year's results? What is their a progress and Attainment 8 like and how many are achieving passes and top grades?

Good luck - don't dismiss the state option, but look very carefully before committing to £150k+ which is what it will be. Don't confuse spending money with showing love.

Well, actually, he might not be in the top sets at the comp.

Yep, my daughter's predicted to get Grade 7/8 in GCSE English. She's in set 3 out of 8 at her comp....

“Your clever ds will enjoy being in the top sets at the local comp “

Well, actually, he might not be in the top sets at the comp. Comps have very bright, Grammar ability, super selective ability kids in them, you know! But that isn’t to say he still wouldn’t get an excellent education!

OP: what is the comp in question?

OP, whilst I agree with your DH that your DS is likely to get the same educational outcome from both schools, (and also the same between a good comp and grammar), few London state schools have the sports facilities or opportunities. They simply don’t have the land, for one thing.

Has your DS done the journey he would take to Whitgift? I don’t mean in the car with you, I mean on the bus / train?

*Popchip" Thanks for such a polite response - I don't want to criticize people's individual choices and I'm sure you and your husband will eventually agree on what is best for your son.

I'm afraid I personally feel very strongly about standing up for comprehensives - but I do understand why people make these assumptions when sections of society are so keen on giving out the message that private or grammar must be best.

Thats only a 13% chance of him taking an oriental language even just up to GCSE standard.

Not every boy will have chosen to study Mandarin or Japanese though.

But he also said why the discussion was made before we decided to enroll for the exam. Totally understandable.

Your son does have a fair point here.

Normally I'd be totally on the side of your husband here. I have sympathy for people choosing private when the state offer genuinely has problems but I would always think people should choose state if the comprehensive is a good one. I do have sympathy with your son though - if he was led to expect that passing the exam would mean going to the school it seems a bit harsh to take it away from him now.

If the decision was between grammar vs whitgift, I think it was more difficult decision. But if state comp vs whitgift, I thought whitgift must be a winner but surprised to hear my DH didn’t agree.

Sorry but I really wish people wouldn't just assume that a grammar "must" be better than a comp. There really is no evidence to support that. I don't want to totally divert the thread but this casual assumption throughout society is really damaging and must be terribly demoralising for all those working in fantastic comps.

Your son has done so well to get his place at W. Congratulations to him. If you can afford the fees, I think it would be cruel to switch plans now. As for reapplying for yr9, there is no guarantee that he would be offered a place at that point, particularly in competition with boys coming from private prep schools whose job it is to get results at this stage. What happens then?

spacecadet48
Hi, I'm curious about what you mentioned. I'm considering the possibility of moving my DS to the state 6th form from the indie in future, thinking more chance to get in top uni and also save the money. Moving from Whitgift was a bad decision you said, what are reasons? Is it just overall facilities wise, Whitgift was better? Or your DS is missing friends at Whitgift? Or actually, it was not good impact academic result? Just started wondering if at 6th form, moving from indie to state is not a good idea.... would you explain a bit more?

Whitgift does sound like a very good fit for your son. A state school won't match the language or sport options. Given that he's pretty average academically he would also benefit from smaller classes. Not to mention that he's so incredibly excited about going there.
I'd definitely go with W if you can comfortably afford it. If you're worried about being able to afford it in 2 or 4 years time, it could get very stressful.

Whitgift is NOT a "third tier" school. Sure, it's not in the league of Westminster etc which take maybe 1% of the population, but it's still VERY competitive to get in and your DS has done extremely well, and W would open up a lot of doors that your local comp just won't. Sad but true.

Oops sorry for typos jointly and they not Thames!

I think you will find that you are both joinyly and severally liable for the school fees.

Will you be in receipt of s bursary/ scholarship for W as I believe Thames can make a substantial difference?

If you can afford it go private if thats what your son wants. Ours got an offer for an outstanding state and one we would have been happy for him to attend if hadnt got any private offers. He would also be in the top set there. He wanted to go private so thats where he will go. However I do see your husbands point. All in we are unlikey to get any change from £175,000+ when all is said and done. Thats not small change

Looking at your reasons for Whitgift and playing devil's advocate to be helpful.

I looked at the Whitgift exam results, 27 out of 209 sat Japanese last year and one sat for A level, and a further one at IB standard level (AS equivalentish). I can also only see 6 sitting Mandarin at SL IB. Thats only a 13% chance of him taking an oriental language even just up to GCSE standard.
According to the results table only 30 sat IB last year so again out of 209 that is less than a 15% chance of him even sitting IB. Although I am actually a little confused because from the tables there are also only 128 sitting A levels last year, giving a total of 158 pupils in 6th forms. Most schools increase their intake for 6th form not reduce it, but I'm sure a W parent can explain.

I have DCs at Indys and they are a nice to have but I know lots of friends DCs who have done incredibly well at state schools.

My eldest went to W until 6th form and we moved him to the outstanding state...worse decision we ever made. However for a lot of the DC they did brilliantly, just not my DS. We have been offered the same sought after secondary and W for DS2 yr 7 and its definitely W for us. I know my DS will take advantage of all that it has to offer. Fabulous school. Tough decision and funny enough a few years ago I was similar to your DH as I couldn't understand why we would pay with a good school a short walk away. (I went to state myself as did he) My OH went on about it not just being about education, it's about the extras. He has a little chip at not being allowed to accept a scholarship at a top private when he was young after getting top marks in the county, his DF didn't believe in private! Good luck with the choice.

What would paying the school fees actually mean for your family finances?

For example, no holidays for seven years? Or only one trip to Blackpool a year? Or losing the ski trip but still going to the Med for a fortnight in the summer?

Do you have other DC to consider?

Don't turn Whitgift down. It's a fantastic school and, on the basis that you can comfortably afford it and your ds loves it, then you'd be mad not to take the place.

Is your husband having cold feet about the fees? I don't blame him, tbh, as it's not a cheap school, but for a hard-working boy who is willing to throw himself into the (frankly amazing) opportunities the school offers, it will be worth every penny.

If you can afford it and it's DS' dream school then I really think you should go for Whitgift. I'd point out to DH that it's not just about what University they end up at but about their experience for the next 7 years. If DS loves the sports facilities and would take advantage of them I think it's worth it just for that, and the added international/languages aspect is a huge bonus if your family (like mine) has an international background.

It's a bit too far to have been a realistic option for us, but I know a few very sporty and bright boys who have absolutely fallen in love with the school and whose families have decided to make it work. By all accounts it's a wonderful school. David Attenborough, our DS' hero, thinks so too!

Personally I think it's sad that money buys a better / more inspirational education but it's a fact of life in this country, unfortunately.

As for getting in at 13+, there are some 30 places at that stage I believe, versus 5-6 forms at 11+, so there would be no guarantees of success (and how keen would they be to make another offer to a family that's already turned them down once, having actually paid the deposit and put the school in a position of having to go begging down the waiting list?)

Your DS has done so well to get an offer (I know some very talented boys who didn't make it). It seems cruel to take it away from him at this point, while saying "you can always reapply later". If you do turn it down it needs to be because you feel the alternative is better for him in the long run (or because you truly can't afford the fees but then it would have been better not to put him through the process in the first place).

Not incoming / he's been there since Sept 2017. Really making a positive impact with boys and staff too.

Would your DS take up everything Whitgift had to offer? If he would then I think it's absolutely worth the money. If you think he wouldn't then I can understand why the state might have more appeal (plus it being closer).

Are you worried how DS might sit in the Y7 cohort? If that's a factor, the Mr Beck can tell you where he came in exams which had been standardised (but of course not all those that sat will attend) so he could be slightly better or worse, depending on acceptances.

I don't know many people (apart from the Whitgift/Trinity/DC thread) who have actually accepted their Y7 offer. Including us. From my limited viewing point, it doesn't seem to have been a good year.
They've got an incoming head but he was the reason why it went back on our list to apply!

I wondered if you meant Riddlesdown, but i think that takes more than 240 in year 7