Zero Tolerance, No Excuses...what should happen to pupils who can’t behave?

Often it isn’t behaviour as such though but an involuntary reaction to a stressful situation the child needs help to employ strategies to control

Not my child's school but for those who think zero tolerance isn't a thing

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-views/long-read-big-rewards-and-really-harsh-punishments-meet-man-who-says%3famp

lougle

And how was the behaviour actually dealt with? Did she have to apologise to the teacher she swore at? Was it explained to her that, when she said 'what she thought', she was also being rude and disrespectful?

Obviously you know your child and I don't, but I haven't met many children who would take anything away from the exchange you describe here other than 'Actually, it is okay to swear at the teacher and I'll get a reward later for not doing it for a week.'

DD1 got so angry with some kids in her school that she climbed over the fence to escape them. Not her finest hour, and we're glad that she walked back through the gate when a teacher opened it. She got to spend the afternoon in the HT's office for that, and was warned that she would be excluded if she did it again. I phoned her year head, and we had a safeguarding chat (her school is on a main road and she has SEN).
Next week, she stormed out of class, because she was angry with some kids, refused to come back in, then told a teacher she didn't give two shits if she got a red mark. She got a red mark for that. I phoned and spoke to the HT, we talked over the issues, and she said she'd talk to her.

DD1 came home the next day. The HT had told her that if she didn't care about red marks, there were after school detentions and Saturday detentions, and that she cannot talk to teachers like she did. DD1 told her that she wasn't swearing at the teacher, she was telling her what she thought (12 year old SEN logic). Then the HT said "You like my dog, so if you can go 1 week without a red, we'll walk my dog to the cafe and have a drink!"

That was a totally individual response to a child's behavioural needs.

noblegiraffe

But I didn't say 'no excuses' - there are very rare cases where SEND does excuse certain behaviour.

Anyway, I think we are done here as you seem to have a fixed idea of what you want to say.

I don't believe zero tolerance works. Pupils are human just like teachers.

Zero tolerance doesn't teach skills. It punishes those not yet acquired.

I think there is a time and place for it when there's clear evidence it's a choice but I'm a true believer that behaviour is communication.

For children with send it's usually that demand is outweighing capacity.
Some students are struggling with difficult homelives.
Some have MH difficulties.
Some just have poor organisation but with support to set up planning etc they can overcome this.

I've seen so many students in our local schools with zero tolerance go from being 'good students' to ones on report and getting detentions (sometimes 3-4 a day) in the space of a few months. In one case the school even admit its out of character - but say they child needs to behave. They are ignoring the Mum who is agreeing behaviour is unacceptable but the student needs support. She recently watched her father physically assault her sister and they family separated. School actually said this isn't their problem . Student went from 1 detention in 18 months to 35 since January and 4 weeks on report. Behaviour is getting worse but school insist the punishments and zero tolerance will eventually teach her to "make correct choices".

Students forget homework. They are human. My ds forgot his homework folder Friday with 3 pieces in it. All teachers said they know he does it and hand it on Monday. Three detentions wouldn't have cured his executive function and organisation related to his asd. He will get lunchtime detention if he doesn't do it Monday though - which is fine.

Other schools locally would have given 3 x 1 hour detention. I'm not sure what that would have done other than have given the student less time in the evening to organise themselves. It was a genuine mistake. (He took it it out put 5 pieces in it and then I called him for dinner so he put it on his desk).

I'm not sure there's any simple solution. But I do know the school ds first attended (secondary academy) uses the zero tolerance system to drive send kids out. 7 have had this in 2 years. The other school who does zero tolerance is also an academy.
Not sure if that's co incidence or rule of school. But they are far more "zero tolerant" than "spend funds supporting".

I'm not going to debate this further, I don't see the point. I think 'caveat' is a clear concept and would have no issue with it at my DC's school.

You can't use definitive terms with flexible policies. That's the bottom line. If you use a definitive term, such as 'zero', 'no', 'without exception', etc., Then say 'except', you are simply saying 'not really'

So, "Zero tolerance..... Not really....." Or "Zero tolerance..... Except these tolerances...." Or "no exceptions.... Except these exceptions"

Use the term "Behaviour policy" or better still "Inclusive Behaviour Policy" and have a policy called "Meeting the needs of pupils with additional needs" that outlines the reasonable adjustments that the school currently makes as normal provision within classes for pupils that need minor accommodations to enable them to learn with their peers.

How's that for a bit of radical proactive thinking? Actually advertise what you do for parents to see?

I’ve taught in a secondary school for boys with social, emotional and mental health needs for nearly 5 years. The students all have EHC plans. Their behaviour in mainstream (primary or secondary) was extreme (repeated violence/escaping and running away etc).
We’ve offered a “respite” provision to give students a break from he mainstream environment for a couple of years. The vast majority of respite students come from academies and over the last 18 months I would say the reasons for being referred have got pettier and pettier.

noblegiraffe

Well, we disagree on this. I think it's fine, and substantially less confusing than 'strict' which could mean anything.

noblegiraffe

But that's exactly the reassurance I'd give them: the reassurance that reasonable, not endless, adjustments would be made, specific to their child's needs. Once the adjustments required went beyond the reasonable and other children's education was being affected, a different conversation would be needed. But for the majority of students, a zero tolerance of disruption is exactly right, in my opinion.

The issue is that there has to be a line drawn up for the limits of behaviour, the problem is that its not a straight line and many pupils are quite rigid in their thinking about who is getting away with poor bahaviour which leads them to push the acceptable boundaries more.

noblegiraffe

But that's what a caveat is

I would read it as, 'zero tolerance of X for the vast majority', and accept that SEND is a valid exception in SOME cases to the policy.

noblegiraffe

No room for caveats?

I'm not in favour of zero tolerance/no excuses. Im a teacher of a creative subject so pretty 'liberal' and on the caring side of the teacher spectrum. If any of my students have a diagnosis or appear on pastoral updates with issues due to trauma, bereavement, home life (which are many, regularly) I cut them some slack where possible. If their behaviour is disruptive I will remove them but in a calm and supportive way. Maybe to take work into a colleagues classroom.
However, if nothing appears in their data and I judge them to be disruptive because they're bored/showing off etc then 'no excuses ' it is. Low level disruption snack of respect due to students getting bored it a perfect storm that needs adressing.

The new curriculum is harder, inaccessible for many, and often boring! It's leading to behaviour problems but how can we force these kids to engage?

I'm in London where most secondaries seem to have similar zero tolerance policies, super-prescriptive uniform, etc. Do people have tips for figuring out whether a school will be reasonable in dealing with a kid with ASD and sensory issues, who is also intelligent and lazy and will encourage reduced expectations if at all possible? What is code for "if your kid has SEN, there are other schools you may wish to consider"?

noblegiraffe

But you can call a policy zero tolerance, provided you stipulate that reasonable adjustments will be made where required by law. No?