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Original poster

Is it possible to have been offered two different secondary school places?

37 replies

Ada23 · 14/03/2018 20:49

Hello, hope anyone with an insight knowledge into the secondary school application process could give me a quick answer:
we have not been allocated a school place for our child (not our first choice, not our second choice, not one which we did not apply for in the bad side of town - nothing; yes, we applied on time, no, we did not move recently, yes, we applied for the two closest school, one of which we are in the catchment area of).
Now my son tells me he overheard a playground conversation, about how three of his classmates have been offered places at two different schools - can someone tell me whether this is possible at all? Will ask around the playground tomorrow, but if this is true is this maladministration and who can I complain to about the admission office?

Any thoughts appreciated, thanks.

OP posts:
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Original poster
Ada23 · 20/03/2018 22:05

Just in case you are curious: caught the mum in question today, yes he misunderstood, just one offer for her child.

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Original poster
Ada23 · 16/03/2018 17:20

Update: still could not catch the right person to have it confirmed from the horses mouth, but having spoken to others it does seem my son misunderstood. Glad on the one hand, disappointed on the other, as that would have been an easy way to prove maladministration in the appeal.

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Original poster
Ada23 · 15/03/2018 21:34

No, the mum I need to talk was not around today, fingers crossed I'll have better luck tomorrow, but thanks to your comments at least I got some sleep last night ;-)
Collecting more info.

OP posts:
BrendansDanceShoes · 15/03/2018 12:29

OP, have you actually verified that what your son had heard is correct yet?

GreenTulips · 15/03/2018 12:21

By the length of the waiting lists you are not alone!

You need to speak to your local MP about this situation and Alger some others onboard - lack of school places is destroying your community and you child will be worn out! Won't have close friends in the holidays makes going to parents evening or cillectingbill child or dropping something off impossible

Get everyone together and start complaining

steppemum · 15/03/2018 10:54

When you phone, quote the act at them,
Under the education act you are legally obliged to provide me with a school place. The law says that must be at the closest school with places available.
If that is too far away, then you are obliged to pay transport.

Please tell me what you are now going to do to provide me with a place?

If they then give you a place at the school 90 minutes travel away YOU MUST ACCEPT IT even if you have no intention of going there in september. Otherwise they will say they have fulfilled their obligation.

Then you can challenge it under fair access etc.

Ragusa · 14/03/2018 23:59

The school is being straight with you OP by the sounds of it. Sounds a bit like LA are trying to wriggle out. Not allowed. They have to come up with somewhere for your child.

Ragusa · 14/03/2018 23:56

It is 100% the LA's statutory duty to find you a school place. They must ensure there are sufficient school places for every child who wants one.

Re the "more than 1" change. The guidance just says 'several' changes might be unreasonable and ultimately it would be à court that arbitrated on reasonableness but ... yeah, 90mins, they would find that v. Hard to defend I MO.

Original poster
Ada23 · 14/03/2018 23:47

Ok, 75 minutes, with no/ one change... will need to investigate, thanks.

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Original poster
Ada23 · 14/03/2018 23:44

Well, Ragusa, that has been their argument: they only administer the applications and have to the apply the school's own criteria. The school says it is not their responsibility to provide us with a place, it is LEA's. So no one is responsible, and we have not done anything wrong, and we still do not have school place - how is that fair?

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Ragusa · 14/03/2018 23:42

An hour transport may not cut it. I believe the relevant guidance suggests that up to 75 minutes each way may be the maximum travel time for secondary pupils, although not if several transport changes arelated involved.

Ragusa · 14/03/2018 23:37

Hmm no I really would not assume responsibility for arranging a place. This is the LA's legal duty, it is very clear in part 1 of the Education Act 1996 and the School Admissions Code.

Although, it does not matter really for school transport. If your child is attending the nearest suitable school (I. E., nearest one with places) they will have to make travel arrangements. Public transport taking 90 minutes would not usually be considered 'suitable' and so the LA would have to consider paying for your mileage or a taxi. You may find that if you ham up the transport angle the LA may suddenly magically come.up with a nearer school place offer. They will not want to pay for bespoke travel.arrangements.

On the other hand it is a little jnfair to lay the blame for poor school place planning totally at LA door. When.schools become academies there isn't much they can do about those school's admissions policies if the schools are going their own merry way and not adopting sensible join arrangements with neighbouring schools/ the LA.

Original poster
Ada23 · 14/03/2018 23:24

Oh, tiggytape, that sounds promising, would you know where I can find out more about Fair Access Protocol?
And what about the reasonable distance bit? Is there more information on what is reasonable? I am fairly certain that I can prove that all schools (with current availability) would be more than an hour away by public transport - though it would be different if they would provide a taxi, as someone mentioned they could, but they won't confirm which one it would be until I have a space (my head spins from that logic ;-) ).

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steppemum · 14/03/2018 23:23

nothing different for SEN, in terms of only getting one place

steppemum · 14/03/2018 23:22

Fair Access Protocol.

this is what I was thinking of.
Tiggy is one of the mn admissions gurus, listen to her!

Original poster
Ada23 · 14/03/2018 23:18

Just to clarify, the child who had the place revoked was a different one to the one who claimed today he had two school places.

Ok, I can see how that situation (new school opening) makes sense, but I can confirm that no new schools have opened within a 20 miles radius, so that won't be it.
Just thinking, would a different situation apply to kids with SEN statements?

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tiggytape · 14/03/2018 23:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PettsWoodParadise · 14/03/2018 23:05

In our LEA this year a number got two offers, one from a new free school (as mentioned up thread) and one via the CAF, the reasoning bring it was up in the air at application time if the new school would go ahead. There is then usually a short window for the family to decide between the CAF school or the free school. After the first year the school goes into the same CAF process as other schools. This has been done before with different new schools in our area. So yes two offers can be made for state schools but it is very specific circumstances.

steppemum · 14/03/2018 23:02

just seen your post about the clerical error, that soudns much more likely, 2 places by accident and now sorted.

steppemum · 14/03/2018 23:00

You LA shouldn't have given you a list of places but offered you a place at one of the schools - I think they could be trying to get out of providing transport. Definitely keep all paperwork.

I really agree with this, and it makes sense over transport.

Just to be clear, if the only school with a place is 6 miles away then THEY MUST provide transport.

I suggest you insist they offer you a place, and even say to the person on the phone, you need to offer me a place, because if I apply for a school far away, then I don't get transport.

I am shocked by the numbers on the waiting list. I wonder if the schools would consider adding a class.

Original poster
Ada23 · 14/03/2018 22:58

Thank you all. As mentioned, will ask the mums directly and I hope (sincerely) he misunderstood - but seeing as one of his schoolmates was offered a place at the nearest school (he was the only one in that year group), but had it REVOKED a week later (yes, LEA has taken it away due to a clerical error) I would not be surprised if it is true.

Will keep the transport angle in mind, could be quite true, seems like the thing they would do.

Thanks for your support, the school admission officer seems to think this is the normal situation, and after a while you start questioning yourself on whether you are the weird one for thinking it is not.

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CotswoldStrife · 14/03/2018 22:56

Ask for the last distance admitted for the schools.

Good luck with the appeal OP. Hope you get a suitable school place soon, it can be a nervous time for children to think about changing schools and not knowing which school it will be adds another level of uncertainty to it!

Bekabeech · 14/03/2018 22:48

SueDunome - no you can't.

The only way I have known people recently hold two offers is when there is a new (usually Free) school opening. Sometimes depending on timing, you can apply to that school outside of the normal admissions process and so get an offer for that school as well as a school through the normal admissions criteria.

The odds are your son misunderstood.
What you need to do is ask to be put on the waiting lists of all schools in your area. Then you need to decide which ones to appeal.
You LA shouldn't have given you a list of places but offered you a place at one of the schools - I think they could be trying to get out of providing transport. Definitely keep all paperwork.

Original poster
Ada23 · 14/03/2018 22:47

Thanks for the confirmation.
All good advice:

  1. Talked to the school admission officer: she strongly recommended applying to one of the school with availability, 'otherwise you might end up home schooling'
  2. Waiting list: place 162 (out of 385) and 92 (out of 150), and that might change as now everyone in the second round of applications will also be considered
  3. Preparing the appeal now, collecting info

I also think they are discriminating against our village, as they allowed this black hole to happen when the secondaries around here all turned into Academies and set their own admissions criteria, with no one having us as their feeder school, nor in their catchment (in a meaningful way.
The other thing is that the first three schools have as their feeders schools that take children from a different LEA, i.e. children living far away/ outside of catchment and in a different administrative area have priority as they have attended the accepted feeder school: how is that possible?
The trouble is, what to do with that? If you can remember the case of what happens to people without a catchment area please let me know, I'll need all the help I can get.

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steppemum · 14/03/2018 22:47

Green - again, I think this is under previous rules. Now the LEA processes the applications for all primaries, including the faith schools and academies, and you are offered one place.