Distance criteria and "open school gates"

Thank you! Yes, I think it probably would trim distance off their walk, so they would use it if they could. If pupils could be dropped off that way, that's another thought.

It definitely would shorten the distance if that gate was usable, and by enough to make the difference too.

Brilliant idea about the letters home, I'll see if they have such a thing.

So, I got a reply, and they said they couldn't provide a map, nor did they specify which gate it was even though I asked. This is now compounded by the fact that DD spoke to a pupil who is there, and she said there is more than one gate they can use (although this second gate is not the one I was thinking of, sadly, and it's further away!) and that vehicles can also use. DD did not ask about the actual gate I meant unfortunately, and assumed I must have meant that one.

So there are at least two gates available for pupils to use even if we don't count the one I'm thinking of, and the LA appears to be refusing to tell me which one they calculated the distance from.

Any thoughts on my next step? I've asked them twice now!

Thanks for all the replies!

The exact wording is "nearest open school gate available for pupils to use"

I agree, going down at school opening time and watching is probably the best bet, although it may just be easier to ask. DD knows pupils already there and she's seeing one of them tomorrow so that seems like the best thing to do.

From looking at Streetview, it's quite a short "drive" and although there's no pavement, there is a kerb with grass on both sides of the gate. Just not through the actual gate, and there's an intercom thing. That doesn't mean it's not open during school start and finish times though, and only closed at other times.

There are actually two vehicle gates, one in, one out. The other one might be cutting it a bit fine (now we're talking centimetres!)

I do realise I am probably clutching at straws, and fortunately we do have (hopefully!) strong grounds for appeal based on more reasonable, non-technicality reasons.

True, but for those with mobility problems but still able to drive, I imagine they'd be more motivated than those who can walk around easily to learn.

A blue badge may not be necessary so long as the school approves.

I realise it's all very tenuous and probably a dead end, but I want to be able to honestly say to DD that I tried my very best if we don't succeed.

Thanks! Yes, I'm quite sure they'll argue that point, they'd be daft not to.

And I suppose, thinking back on my own schools that I attended, it would be unusual if there was more than one school gate pupils could officially use. (I'm thinking here of a gate at my secondary that was unlocked, but we were forbidden to use it)

I'm still waiting to hear back as to which gate they used for their measurements. Probably it is the main gate, so then I need to get some insider information as to what circumstances pupils can use the other gate.. or not at all.

It does say in the school rules that pupils are not permitted in any of the car parks, so I'm going to assume they aren't ordinarily allowed through that gate. But this technicality hinges on whether sixth formers with mobility issues who drive can use it.. and whether a panel feels this is a reasonable interpretation of "pupil". There's no mention of year group anywhere.

Good to know that some people have won based on similar though - thank you!

Thank you, that is all very helpful and pretty much what I suspected. It is a bit of a gamble (assuming it looks like it is possibly worth pursuing) but at the same time I really don't think there will be many, if any.

I've asked the LA again to tell me which gate they used.. I will update!

Thank you!

Yep, definitely not high density. There's almost certainly no blocks of flats and most of the line passes through fields or parks. Our road (ironically) has probably one of the bigger concentration of likely properties and I am 99.9% sure we are the only ones.

Out of interest, if the stars aligned (i.e. some pupils can use the gate, and it was not the gate we were measured from and we do indeed scrape in) I'm assuming we would still need to wait until appeal to use it and nothing would be sorted sooner? Given people have to debate the nature of the wording as regards gates.

Would this be brought up at the first stage or the second stage?

Thank you! I've asked them to clarify which gate was used for my measurement, and if it is the main gate as I suspect, I'll dig a bit more into the vehicle gate. Most likely it's not for use by pupils, unless one could argue (and this is the part that feels nitpicky) that blue badge holding sixth form pupils with a car could use it, and they count as pupils..

Fortunately there's no way we are basing our appeal on it, we do have plenty of other hopefully strong reasons, but it's the whole no stone left unturned thing!

In an ideal world we'll get a waiting list position next month anyway and this will all be moot (please!!!!)

I suspect you are right, and that the school would argue (probably convincingly) that the other gate should not be used. I do need to find out the status of it. Which makes it all quite moot!

I drew some circles, it really is a very thin band (unsurprisingly!) that we fall right in the middle of. We live in a relatively rural area, so there are only a couple of places with housing outside of catchment that the band falls through.

From zooming right in, I'd estimate there were approximately 150 households that fall into that area including ours. Of those, based on my local knowledge of the area and a few other factors (including proximity to bus stops, standard and culture of local primaries) there's probably only about 50 households who would even consider it. Of those, there would need to be a child of the correct age who has applied. At our school, three pupils including DD applied and qualified, so roughly 10% and that's under the optimum conditions. It's a similar number for a school slightly closer in too, in similar circumstances.

I could be missing something really significant here, in which case I apologise! But it does feel like it is quite likely we would perhaps be the only ones affected.

I can PM you a link to the map I made if needs be!

I have to say I don't particularly like this particular way, as if through some small chance it was successful, it feels kind of underhand. But at the same time, DD is the first child from her school to qualify yet not get in - she worked so hard to qualify, the school is so suited to her and we had no reason until recently to think she wouldn't get it so long as she qualified. So I feel like I have to try everything.

Do some appeals often come down to things of this nature, out of interest?