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Original poster

Teen DC sharing a room on a school trip with DC of opposite sex

62 replies

TeenTimesTwo · 12/03/2018 19:29

I am hoping not to be shouted at for this, but this topic is being discussed elsewhere in respect to girl guides and I think it is important for secondary trips. I suspect that some people here don't frequent AIBU or the other relevant boards.

Girl guiding have changed their rules to say that a boy who feels he is a girl can join guides and then go on camping trips sharing tents with other guides without any of the other guides parents being informed their DDs aren't in single sex tents . The boy does not need to have been seen by a doctor or having undergone any formal counselling. He just needs to 'self-id'.

If this can happen in girl guides it could happen in secondary school trips too, couldn't it? I can't say I would be happy if my 13/14/15yo was sharing with a boy, even if he felt confused over his gender/sexuality. You may think this would never happen, but I wouldn't have thought guides would allow it, so who knows.

There is a petition regarding asking the government to consult with women's groups before enshrining this 'self-identification' right into law. petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118 . Note this isn't about stopping people going through counselling / treatment to help their body fit their sense of who they are. It is about considering the impact on girls (and women) if boys and men can just 'declare' themselves to be the opposite of their biology (and of course vice versa).

If you want to sign please do, if you don't want to, then fine. There are loads of other threads elsewhere for in depth discussion. I just want to ensure that parents of teens in education are aware.

OP posts:
Original poster
TeenTimesTwo · 13/03/2018 09:52

MrsMcGarry I agree that no one should encroach on people's personal spaces.

But also I respect the fact that many girls do not like to get changed in front of boys (and probably vice versa). Which is why many (most?) primary schools instigate sex separated changing for PE from around y4/y5.

If girls (or their parents) feel uncomfortable changing in front of a boy, or sleeping in the same room as one, why should that boy's rights (to say he prefers being in the girls space rather than the boys) trump the rights of the girls? If the boy doesn't want to be with the other boys then a solution needs to be found. But that solution doesn't need to be putting him in with the girls without consulting them or their parents.

Similarly if a girl preferred to be with the boys. Why should her rights trump those of the boys?

OP posts:
MrsMcGarry · 13/03/2018 09:24

No it's not OK for us to tell girls it's OK to say no to someone with a male body encroaching on their space. In the same way as it's not OK for men to tell women they can't encroach on theirs.

What we need to be telling girls is that it's Ok to say no to ANYBODY encroaching on their space, regardless of the way they present or what's in their pants.

titchy · 13/03/2018 09:19

Science your viewpoint is solely that of the trans person. You have completely and utterly ignored the feelings of girls.

Whether the boy transitioned for nefarious reasons is irrelevant. What is relevant is that we teach girls that it's ok to say no to someone to a male body encroaching on their space. No to unwanted cuddles from Uncle Dave. No to the touchy-feely gym coach. No to the boy at school who twangs our bra strap and looks up our skit. THAT is safeguarding for life.

And you're happy to tell your Brownies to ignore all of that because HIS feelings are more important. Shame on you.

Allthecoolkids · 13/03/2018 08:17

Signed.
This is a watershed moment.

Original poster
TeenTimesTwo · 13/03/2018 08:11

Science The petition is just about women's groups being consulted.

I don't particularly mind about the reason why a boy teen would feel he is a girl. It absolutely doesn't have to be for 'dubious' reasons at all.

But school groups are currently separated by sex in accommodation. I don't think a school (or guides) should be able to override that basic safeguarding without at least a discussion with the girls involved and their parents (which is what girl guides are effectively saying they will do).

Now it may be that in particular cases I wouldn't mind, but I sure as hell would want to be given the option to mind!

If the boy in question doesn't want to share with other boys (why?) why should girls rights be overridden without asking them or their parents so he can share with girls? (Sex specific pronouns used for clarity.)

OP posts:
BringOnTheScience · 12/03/2018 23:07

There is too much fear that such a boy-to-girl teen is doing this for dubious reasons. If a child, especially a teen, has decided to transition, they don't want to be sharing rooms that make them uncomfortable. They will be far more aware of this than their potential room/tent mates.

Teen boys don't decide to pretend to be girls just so that they can share a room/tent. It takes immense bravery to transition. They will face frequent hatred, fear and abuse.

I know that this is not the prevalent MN view... but I stand by it.

  • Our daughters are not under threat.
  • My Brownie unit will continue to welcome all comers.
  • My DCs, who are both in the LGBTQIA+ community, will have the full support of their Mama Bear... as will any other child.

NB - I may choose to answer reasonable questions in response to this but I will ignore ill-informed attacks on my position.

titchy · 12/03/2018 22:22

For a start it would run contrary to NSPCC guidelines to be mixing sexes in sleeping accommodation.

No it doesn't mrsfogi. The NSPCC has swallowed hook line and sinker Mermaid and GI's view and think there's nothing wrong with that.

MedusaBadHairDay · 12/03/2018 21:13

I’ve read a lot of the other threads on this and what is in the news, if you question it you get called a bigot and anti-trans. It’s good to have a healthy debate and to raise concerns that affect both sides of the story. But I have to say I’m concerned by how quickly things are changing and how it will affect those who are vulnerable.

Globetrotter100 · 12/03/2018 20:58

Signed. Thank you for sharing OP

MedusaBadHairDay · 12/03/2018 20:55

This whole self id is a minefield

Original poster
TeenTimesTwo · 12/03/2018 19:41

You would think so wouldn't you MrsFogi . But then you would think that for the Girl Guides too ...

OP posts:
MrsFogi · 12/03/2018 19:36

I think schools would need to be very careful because they need to balance their safeguarding duties to all the children. For a start it would run contrary to NSPCC guidelines to be mixing sexes in sleeping accommodation.

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