kings college school vs Wilson ( or Tiffin)

Giardiniera
What I meant about their brand image( having lived locally) was how their entrance process was touted to be one of the best in previous years. I know a lot of very bright, non tutored children who wrote the exam and did not get through but got through other ( even better) independent schools. And children tutored with three different tutors sometimes have got in! To me, that rings alarm bells. And also the fact that they are being separate with a different library, different curriculum and different sports team even. It looks like they are appealing to a certain section that loves the prestige the brand name brings and yet the school perhaps wants to take a softer approach to let them settle in. The real challenge will be in Year 9 when the pre school boys join. For me personally, I would not wish for my DC to be part of some experiment process..Again just to reiterate, no taking away that KCS is an excellent school but equally they are trying something new for sure..

Sanam, I completely agree with you. Unfortunately what swung my decision towards Wilson’s was that we know kids who were tutored up to their eyes, did not even make it to the first stage of grammars but got through to King’s. I know for a fact that two years back, getting into KCS was much harder and I was convinced that their assessment system must be very good at choosing the type of child who would thrive at their school. Not any more unfortunately. The new 11+ system , which has its positives in terms of widening the net, more numbers etc, definitely has changed the way the school has previously functioned. It is perhaps the Head trying something new and it is a wait and watch approach in 3 years to see whether the previous batch of new 11+ intakes still prove to be good as stellar..

Hi mumhelp,
Hope you have made your decision and whatever it is, I am sure it is for the best! Good luck!

I say the same to everyone who asks these kind of questions, if you have a great state Grammar option, then, unless you are loaded and the £150k fees are really a drop in the ocean, it makes sense to pick it. The Independent option might offer some extras and a different experience, but it's probably not worth £150k if the state alternative is also very very good.
The answer might be different if the state alternative were a rubbish option - but it's not in this case.

Re the tutoring thing - it's widespread for entry to both of these schools. When people can afford fees, perhaps their approach to tutoring and preparation is understandably not as intense - because they know there will be other good options if the very top choice doesn't come off. For many who can't pay fees, the alternative to the state grammar seems very poor and that obviously is a big motivator.

One final thing - many of those who get offers for independents don't get offers from the super selective state grammars, if they sit both. Many also choose not to sit for the state grammars, saying that they don't like the tutoring ethos or very exam focused education of offer. Some do enter, but say that they are only doing it for practice and not prepping for it and wouldn't take it if offered - strikes me as a way of covering yourself for when no offer comes.

I think that it is a simple fact that it is more competitive to get a state grammar place if it superselective. Yes they have often been tutored, but the kids getting independent results have often been tutored too or had years of Prep schooling or both. In most cases, the superselective state grammar will have a less wide range of ability....less of a relative tail.

The independents though, do manage to get some fantastic results out of their wider ability range. So my observation for parents with money, is that if your child is bright but not super bright and likely to make the state superselective cut, they may get an independent school place in a great school and end up with similar results.....so for me, it's those kids who really gain from having the choice that money gives. The kids who are bright but not super bright whose parents cannot pay, might just have to take their chances in the local Comp.

based on those travel times you have your answer.

• I meant feeder pre-prep.

I know two boys, who rejected places at KCS for Wilson's or Tiffin. They haven't regretted it.

I have two sons at Wilson's. Wilson's isn't the crazy hothouse often portrayed in these threads. They put a big emphasis on extra curricular activities. They are particularly strong in music and there is plenty of sport for boys who like it.

I do get sick of people getting their children tutored for private school exams and interviews and then talking about the "pressure" of grammar school entry and the "obsession" of grammar school parents. Most people tutor to get their boys into KCS too even when they are already in a feeder prep school. And the grammar schools don't do interviews.

One area where Wilson's is weak, however, is in computer science. They don't seem to be able to recruit enough teachers (a problem at all schools generally). My son in year 10 is doing GCSE Computer Science, but the subject hasn't been offered to the current years 9 or 8 (they start GCSEs in year 9 at Wilson's). There aren't any coding or computer science clubs when you would expect there would be plenty of boys interested in it. I don't know what computer science is like at KCS, but it could be a consideration if your son is particularly into it.

If your son is interested in music, sport or the Army or RAF CCF then the school is great for extra-curricular. It is also good on classics/Latin. They enter a lot of national science, maths, history etc competitions and do really well in them.

Just to say I have never heard of standards going down at KCS because they have split the intake at 11. If anything it's the opposite and is intended to widen access making he transition from state primary easier than finding a prep for two years.
Astonished that anyone would think this would "take away from the brand name"

That said OP I would really think about the grammar option in your case - 70 mins is too far to travel twice a day for any school in my view.

Go for the closer one then. Doing a journey which is potentially 70 mins twice a day for all those years makes KCS a non starter for me when you have such a fantasitoc alternative with less than half the travel time.

You said in your original post that travel time was the same, then that travel time to KCS was 60-70 mins and Wilsons 20-30mins. I would say that is significantly differently twice a day over a school career?

Go for the shorter journey time. There are all sorts of courses & opportunities that are not available to children at independent schools, eg summer schools at great universities, work experience programmes.

It's misleading to suggest that standards at King's will have changed due to the new arrangements for 11+. They always did take 11+, but they went into the junior school, whereas as I understand it they now go straight into a year 7 class in the upper school. It makes sense in terms of helping them to catch up - when my DS went in from a maintained primary school he had to catch up a bit in some subjects, particularly maths and French.

That said, if I were in OP's position the fees plus the longer journey time would probably make it a no-brainer to go for Wilson's.

My DS attended one of the prep schools in SW London and if you wanted to meet desperate parents, that was the place. The obsession with getting your DS into Kings or St Paul’s knew no bounds. No other school would do and most of the boys were tutored daily as well as attending this very expensive prep. When we moved my DS to a ‘lesser’ school, I had to get used to all the ‘ohs’ from the parents.

I'm sure boys are tutored for KCS. But there is not the desperation in the parents that I sense in the Tiffin parents. I'm sure because KCS is one of a number of good options such as St Paul's, Westminster etc as it was for us. Whereas perhaps for some it's Tiffin or the local comp.

dimsum, I know so many parents who tutor since Reception even if they want their sons to go to KCS. Also, maybe if the Tiffin parents you describe don't speak a word of English, hiring a tutor is probably a good idea as they wouldn't be able to help. If you dad is a headmaster of a prep school (and many of these happen to send their sons to KCS), of course you don't need a tutor. Not a fair comparison. But every boy I know who got into KCS at 7+ was tutored heavily this year, also another boy I know who got in at 11+ was heavily tutored for KCS. Bright boy nonetheless, so I have no problem with that, but it is absolutely wrong to suggest kids at grammars had more tutoring than those at KCS. If anything, grammar school parents are less affluent and won't be able to afford more than 1-2 hours of tutoring per week, whereas in the independent sector, some parents go all out and hire tutors for 5 - 10 hours a week!

My impression is based on fact. I personally know quite a few parents who were absolutely desperate for their DC to be offer Tiffin. One had their DC tutored from year 3, one had her DC tutored EVERY DAY for an hour after school plus homework, since year 4. Another had their DC tutored all day Saturday since year 3. Any many of these parents could barely speak English themselves as it was not their first language.

Based on that and stories about the school being a hot house pressurised environment there was no question of us choosing Tiffin.

Whereas I also know parents with DC at KCS who have done nothing but sing it's praises since their DC started there age 7.

Sorry but thought the reply would show immediately below question. My reply above is for dimsum123

I have to disagree with your statement here generalising that grammar school children have no social life etc. That’s simply the perception the independent schools have created. Yes, perhaps more sports teams but depends on whether a child actually even wants to try the sports and be in team D . I know that top independent schools including Kings do come down heavily on children who are not up to par In academics and there are helicopter parents on both sides. Equally, parents at both grammars and independents continue to tutor their kids for those extra few points but that’s a personal choice. More than happy to substantiate and the reason Im replying to your specific post is that this journey of choosing between KCS and Wilsons has been a real eye opener. I too started off with certain perceptions just because I attributed paying fees to better overall education..

We are exactly on the same boat and chosen Wilson’s over kcs. You are right: academically both are excellent and extra curricular and sports at Wilson’s has plenty to offer btw. Other than the obvious difference between fees/ free( that should never be the key decider imho if you are able to afford it), here are points that contributed to our decision:

1. Seen children at both schools and while the main selling point( KCS seems a bit corporate) is well rounded and confident kids, I found this to be true of Wilson’s too.
2. I’m sure you’re aware that KCS has adopted a slightly different strategy for 11+ last year and this year. 40 or so children get admission and they are combined with the King’s prep school kids at year 9. Rang all sorts of alarm bells for us and seems like they’re testing out a new strategy. For us,it takes away slightly from the brand name due to the admissions process being slightly relaxed in comparison to previous years. Happy to explain further if you’re interested
3. I know parents in KCS prep who are very happy but still say they would give up the place if their child gets into Wilson’s. Financially too it becomes a long term investment and the cohort is able to provide for additional lessons for their child to push them further if needs be. Not something we would be willing to do I’m afraid
4. It does come down ultimately to what you want as a family unit too. We could do without the burden of fees for an equally stellar education,trying to perhaps play catch-up with the peer group( since I work full time too and wouldn’t be able to go for games, events etc as frequently as others might well do). And, once a child is in a top grammar such as Wilson’s, switching to an independent later if needs be is easier than missing the 11+ boat for Wilson’s completely given the single entry point.

What nocampinghere said. And I am also a Kings parent.

Surely you'd need a strong preference for KCS to pay the £150k it costs to go there?

PS DS is now half way through year 7 at King's and is absolutely thriving, academically and socially, and we are definitely on the same page as the other parents we know there.