kings college school vs Wilson ( or Tiffin)

Polka - totally understand that your decision is specific to your circumstances and I'm sure not arrived at lightly.

What do you mean by KCS 11+ not identifying raw potential this year?

It is made quite clear in KCJS that you are not a KCS boy until you pass the transfer exam. Headmaster is GS. The lower school boys are part of KCS from day 1. Headmaster is AH. Different schools. They aren’t subtle about it.

I’m not sure who you mean they’re kept separate from either, Polkapink.

If you mean the junior school year 7 and 8s, then they are effectively in a separate school, with separate timetabling and curriculum, so there is no reason why the 2 groups should meet, have common sports teams etc. Doing so would surely defeat the point of having separate 11+ entry into the senior school? The boys who join the senior school at 11+ do so free of common entrance curriculum requirements - the boys in the junior school have largely joined at 7+ knowing they would do common entrance at 13, and do have to follow a separate curriculum.

King’s surely have to do their best by both sets of boys. But there is no reason why the senior school years 7 and 8 should follow the same, common entrance driven, curriculum as the junior school years 7 and 8. I’m sure king’s are perfectly aware of exactly where they want boys to be at year 9 when they come together, and will get them there in an engaging and varied manner, free of external constraints.

A number of highly academic schools, such as Hampton, are in a very similar situation, with significant intakes at both 11+ and 13+. Boys there will have come via Hampton years 7 and 8, but also from external preos at 13+. I don’t understand why the king’s scenario is different and troubling to you?

Your other objections seem to be around the added value relative to a grammar. Personally I would have ironed out my opinion on that decision before I made my child sit the kings 11+.

Polka what do you mean by keeping them separate? From the JS or from other SS years?

A lot of opinions coming up here. My concern is NOT the 11+ students (who seem like a great cohort) but increasing the size of the school (88 additional students) without increasing any resources. Year group sizes have been inching up as well. I worry (but don’t know for sure) that this is why teachers might be leaving. As a longtime KCS parent, my DS1 had a much more individualized education than DS3 will get. That is NOT to say that there are not some GREAT teachers and opportunities but that paying so much money (which is a sacrifice for us) we are concerned.

Ironically, we loved St Paul’s on sight playing fields and boathouse. The reason we chose KCS was a fear that St Paul’s might be a bit more difficult in terms of snobbery. But who knows.

And I agree totally that naturally bright kids who are motivated and belong at places like Oxbridge will get there.

I don't get it either. All this concern about "standards" and "the brand" is just thinly veiled snobbery, surely? At KCS, pupils have always entered at 7+, 8+, even 9+, with no concerns about the impact on academic standards (because these were largely boys from other independent preps). Why the sudden concern about increased 11+ entry, then?

I don't understand what the genuine issue is here. Is it a worry that the boys who accept KC this year are not the brightest because their parents are choosing Grammar as the 'delta isn't worth it'?

Why are parents worried about how academically rarified their school is? How does this significantly impact the quality of education they receive?

If your child at KC really is naturally bright it won't affect their trajectory. If Oxbridge is their ambition they'll own it and get on with it.

11 plus entry is not just about widening opportunity for state school entry. There are multiple excellent prep schools that prepare for 11 plus - Prospect House being one just up the road. I think they had several boys who received scholarships last year - boys who previously wouldn't have bothered applying because places at KCS were so limited going into Year 7. They would go for Hampton or Latymer instead.

Parents with both girls and boys tend to go for 11 plus preps. To many families, the Common Entrance system seem cumbersome and pointless - unless you want your child to board. There are very limited options for girls at 13 plus in terms of day schools - you are looking at occasional places. 13 plus preps such as Kings House have the problem of dwindling numbers in Years 8 and 9, as increasingly boys move at 11 plus to get the full senior school experience. 13 plus is a failing business model, these days. I think KCS sees this shift and is adapting.

“In my son's year, there is much more concern about the increase in wealthy Kensington and Chelsea parents than anything else”

OMG: does everyone really sit around discussing this stuff, and getting ‘concerned ‘ and analysing the impact of state school pupils and whether tne entrance exam is rigorous enough to weed out the lower middle classes that upper middle classes can’t mix with, and worrying about the ‘brand’ ? Really?

There are snotty parents everywhere!

All my DC went to state primaries before moving to the independent sector (including KCS) and there were tricky characters in both sectors. To be honest you see so little of parents at secondary that it makes little difference. Whereas at primary it felt a bit intense.

Grammar v independent is a very personal choice and what is right for one family won't necessarily be right for another. We turned down a grammar and I've never regretted it.

We've been incredibly happy with KCS and I would do it again if I had the choice. I'm sure Wilson's is great as well - all our DC are very lucky to have the opportunity of attending these schools.

I am just messing with you polka you'll be fine. It is a minority of snotty parents at Kings, I would notice it more because I am a big people watcher. I hope it doesn't put anyone off Kings who does want a place for their DS. I am going to make a nice long post about all the positive things about the school in the next few days just for balance.

Helloallll: if anything I find state school children more adaptable since they’re not handed things on a plate as much as prep school kids. I’ll always remain a proud state school mum and think that an intelligent child will make the most of a good school.

Cake, I’m sure they’ll be around but probably in smaller numbers. And it hurts a little less when there’s no fees to pay😄

helloallllll - I agree with you. It's a ridiculous and pretty offensive notion that state school educated children will lower the standards at KCS.

Quite a few of the children I've known, who've moved to private school from state are moved because they can't keep up at the state school and need smaller classes.

Well polka lets hope there aren't any at Wilsons. But IME snotty upper-middles short of cash usually pay for prep and then go for grammars. Good Luck!

MeetieVon: the angst comes from a parent in whose eyes KCS was THE school for her son. Throw in an admissions policy that is mismatched (for reasons I’ve explained in previous posts), the 150k is not a drop in the ocean and a decision that’s crucial, yes you could say my feelings ranged from frustration to angst but not anymore. I’m happy we’ve chosen Wilson’sbut have to add that I’m not saying a parent who has chosen kcs at 11+ is making a wrong move. It comes down to what works for each family. And I’m horrified that on top of all this I might be in a peer group of snobbish parents!

Cake that's depressing. Glad to be staying in the state sector in that case.

Reeling - I think you'll find people are a lot snobbier than you think.
And yes I agree about K&C boys, just wait until the 18th birthday season begins - prepare to be gobsmacked!

It is pure snobbery because nothing scares the upper middles more than mixing with the lower middles Hmmm, I believe quite a lot of London grammar and comprehensive parents are 'uppper middles' themselves, certainly in terms of professional status. Just maybe not rich ones.

And, given that some of the 'feeder' state school pupils - for KCS 11+ entry - will be coming from places like Bishop Gilpin (which is really a prep school in disguise) they have no right to be snobby really, do they?

It really is hard think how to justify £150k. Not sure what i'd do if I had it all to do over again. DS does a lot of things outside school and has state school friends who seem to be very bright, ambitious, happy and involved at their schools. Some really inspiring teacher stories too.

In my son's year, there is much more concern about the increase in wealthy Kensington and Chelsea parents than anything else but we did not have an 11+ cohort in our year.

I agree with previous posters and I don't think the concerns about 11+ entry are anything to do with academic standards. It is pure snobbery because nothing scares the upper middles more than mixing with the lower middles, although strangely there is no problem with the working classes. I don't think there would be any problem at all if the school had instead told parents it was going to select 15-20 very disadvantaged boys who would need 100% bursaries. From a marketing perspective alienating your biggest customer group isn't ideal particularly if your new stratergy is to attract new customers who have free access to the many outstanding state comps and grammars in the area.
I have put 3 DCs through preps and only a very tiny number of DCs are put forward for state school entrance. If you're DC is in a prep you don't even receive reminders from the council or the application paperwork. DCs from preps go on to senior Indys because these are the only schools the parents have visited and know about. It isn't that they think these schools are better than the state alternatives most parents, like us, have never visited any. It is interesting that Kings now has to prove to parents like polka that Kings offers something for £150k that Wilson's doesn't. For 13+ the money doesn't enter the equation because if not spent at Kings it will be spent elsewhere.

It’s interesting that current KCS parents seem to have such little faith in the admissions team, who will presumably have years of experience of interviewing boys and will know how to pick the boys that they think will do well at the school.

There are plenty of excellent boys schools that have always taken the majority of their cohort at 11+ and seem to do just fine. I’m really not understanding the angst.

I think a lot of the angst about more boys at 11+ and declining standards is really just a bit of snobbery about the fact that more boys from state schools may get in. Amongst my friends with DCs in prep schools they do seem a bit put out that children from state schools can get multiple offers to good schools when their children at prep schools struggle to do so. A smart blazer and selection of badges does not mean that their child is more intelligent- yes, they may have done more Latin and french before the age of 11 and probably more sport etc but generally in a couple of terms all will have evened out. It's all about potential...

Giardiniera,
Just to clarify , the 11+ entry for the non JS boys is what I was referring to and it was a common entrance exam paper with no pre tests so perhaps I am missing something here..
I can say though that the boys were interviewed across all levels of staff and some with easy interviews like talking about hobbies etc got through with no problem. Which is all great but it is disappointing too from another perspective since I know that these boys are the ones that have been heavily tutored. You can tell that my opinions are coming from a person who is disappointed with the way KCS has shifted in my eyes from having an excellent assessment system to a very chaotic situation perhaps not knowing where they want to go. I acknowledge though that they will continue to see good results but perhaps not at the levels as before..