What are STATE schools in London like?

My impression is that many news organisations assemble school data and manipulate it.

Some invite specific schools to submit data.

Some only includer schools who submit data.

Many compare apples with pears because they do not compare like qualifications.

Almost all compare apples with pears because the starting points of their pupils is so different - is a school that takes children who are below average and get them above average results better, or worse, than a school that takes excellent pupils and gets them excellent results?

Schools tend to quote the statistics that make them look best.

I don't trust the methodology of the ES article, and there are some very strange omissions (Henrietta Barnett?). However the Sunday Times guide has far-reaching methodology and full data sets and is entirely trustworthy IF you're just judging a school on exam results.

There are problems to doing this, but it's still worth noting there are 32 Greater London independents before you get to the first West Yorkshire one. That's not explained by a 4x population difference, so what's going wrong up there?

So the methodology of the DFE tables is dire .....
What is the methodology of the Evening Standard article that you all trust so implicitly ?

Just rechecked. They plan to publish in March. Almost all schools in top 100 will have 98%+ by those measures, which aren't very useful.

And A*/A were still awarded in most subjects in 2017. For the ones that weren't they use 7-9.

Talkinpeace - that list doesn’t contain all private schools, i guess it doesn’t have igcse ones (my dc school gets 0 for maths/English above grade 5)

Nice one, Peace. You do know that site doesn't measure the vast majority of independent schools? Try putting a few in the search box if you don't believe me.

londonista
A*/As at GCSE Yours will be out of date then.
And not validated by the DFE

The link was to the 2017 results - where A* is not used ....

OK @TalkinPeace, you look at the tables that measure 5+ GCSEs at A-C and I'll look at the ones that measure %age of A*/As at GCSE and A-level.

Here is the link to the table
www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/schools-by-type?step=default&table=schools&schooltype=Independent%20School&phase=secondary&for=secondary&basedon=English%20%26%20maths%20GCSEs&show=All%20pupils%20%26%20prior%20attainment

@londonista
GDST schools are NOT state ...nor is Salesian
in fact I ticked the "independent box
all the schools I mentioned are FEE PAYING

and frankly a list in a newspaper versus the DFE tables - I know which I trust

It was a quick google search, but i believe it is state schools at gcse.
I was a bit surprised at some of them too.

I think all 10 are grammars.

Sorry, I've just found the link. It's GCSEs - wouldn't A Levels be a better indication?

Gowgirl is this the most recent league table? GCSEs or A Levels? Or combined performance list? I'm surprised that Tiffin Boys isn't in that list (particularly as Wallington County Grammar School, Sutton is - generally considered to be less high performing). Please could you provide the link? They're all in London boroughs too Taffeta. It all depends what your definition of London is too.

That's the top ten state schools. Sunday Times do a list of independent schools ranked by combined GCSE/A level, which is what I was going off @TalkInPeace

Is that top 10 state schools or top 10 all schools?

And what data are they using for the ranking?

Don’t know about the Ilford one but all the others are highly selective

And most of them I’d hardly call “London” either!!!

The top ten schools in London

Tiffin Girls’ School, Kingston upon Thames

Queen Elizabeth’s School, Barnet

Nonsuch High School for Girls, Sutton

Wallington County Grammar School, Sutton

St Olave’s and St Saviour’s Grammar school, Bromley

Wilson’s School, Sutton

Ilford County High School, Redbridge

St Michael’s Catholic Grammar School, Barnet

Townley Grammar School, Bexley

The Latymer School, Enfield

Source the evening standard 😶

Eaton Square is a prep, which goes to 13, and which might still be non-selective for entry to lower school, but all pupils in the school and new joiners must pass exam to progress to the upper school.

Do those tables include iGCSE? Where is St Ethelburgas, according to that table?

And as this thread is about London schools, what are the top 10 of London schools?

Funny that in the highest scoring GCSE results for independent schools on the DFE tables I see
Manchester Girls' Grammar
Twycross
Wakefield Girls High
Nottingham GDST
Salesian
and many others that are a very long way from London

I think I ticked the ‘mainstream’ filter, and 12-16 because including 11 put prep schools in tne list. There were a lot of faith schools, true, but lots with names like Eaton Sq and Chepstow.

@TalkInPeace Without knowing all of them, I can still say you have to go through 32 London independents and half a dozen state schools before you get to the top performing school in West Yorkshire. I know league tables aren't everything but, yes, the market is a bit different here. GSAL/BGS/QEGS don't charge a massive amount less than London indies either.

My friend's son got chucked out of his selective private school in year 9 on a pretext when his grades were slipping because of time out for medical reasons. Is that the sort of thing that you're discussing? He found out that other parents at that school had had similar experiences.

I've just been playing on the GSG site, and think I have replicated your search for 'non-selective'.

If you exclude schools for SEN, stage schools, Steiner schools, those delivering education in a language other than English; then you are left with a number of faith schools (Jewish, Islamic and some Christian sects) and I don't really know so much about them. I also excluded crammers and one interloping prep school that probably shouldn't have been on that list, plus those which are essentially FE with an optional earlier start age (because I really was talking about secondary schools in a fairly ordinary sense, not every permutation of where a teenager could attend). That left a handful of schools.

I've been looking at school websites, and found so far that they assess by own exam, CE, assessment day, and so I wouldn't call then 'non-selective'. None of them. Happy to accept a different definition though.

Clearly this is evidence that there are categories of London private secondary which I'm not familiar with. I was thinking of mainstream, and should have caveatted more carefully. So again, will leave it to anyone else with a better grasp to comment.

88 non-selective in London. I am surprised -SlackPanther

I have never posted exactly why I know London schools, and am perfectly prepared to accept that my posts on Education threads might sometimes contain inaccuracies (usually by missing updates in some).

I am happy to agree that schools in Manchester and Birmingham are essentially the same as in London - you will notice I had already caveated remarks to include 'certain cities' - and there are some other places too.

If you think my posting record on private education shows an unacceptable level of inaccuracy, such that my direct experience and views formed from that, are worthless, then that's fine and I shall bow to your greater knowledge.

And would still like to know which London private secondaries have the dire problems you say exist, particularly (but not limited to) the unfair weeding you state is a problem there at present.