City of London Girls withdrawing offers

But, chocolatewombat, whilst I can sympathise a bit with your viewpoint, I don't actually buy that it is significantly harder for CLSG than most of the other schools we see mentioned on these threads. Also, the ridiculously short timeframe within which offers exploded this year (much sooner than last year I think) suggests an element of panic acceptances, perhaps amongst those for whom £1,500 is a drop in the ocean. I wouldn't be surprised if a significant number pull out. Next year, if your acceptance isn't in by the end of the day offers come out, you will be too late because everyone will remember what happened this year and rush round to the school the same day. It's nuts!

It reminds me of the Emanuel registration situation and when my eldest son applied we visited in October of year 6 and then registered shortly afterwards. However word of the limited registration numbers gets out and creates panic and In recent years parents have needed to register by the beginning of year 5. Presumably the school recognised that this was untenable and have changed their process accordingly.

Yes those are all the reasonable considerations of someone wondering whether they can afford over £100,000 of expenditure. No one should make that decision quickly. Since we are waiting for a state place - and as a single parent I'm hoping for that - I'm taking all the time I need.

Of course this is a difficult time but none of the other schools DD has had offers from have done this. I will actually release most of them this week but the idea that I must hurry up and make this massive decision within two business days when I don't have all the data available to me is crazy. Oh and I don't think many people will hold the offer until September. After this term you become liable for the whole first term of fees whether you go or not.

Also, if someone is about to save £150k for a state school place, I think they can part with £1.5k as insurance for a private school place.

I disagree though glad to see the school has the support of the parents.

There will be people away on holidays (e.g.skiing or even further afield) who haven't even seen the offer letter yet, much less responded to requests of money. They've missed out.

There will be others who are Band A at Henrietta Barnet or in marginal places for other schools who have been offered a bursary to partially cover fees but would prefer an entirely free option. They've missed out.

It has put me off all schools that do this. Other schools manage well - why can't Channing and CLGS? I don't buy the tight space argument I'm afraid.

Backing vocals - I think your response is what they are trying to minimise. If your DD finally pulls out and goes to the state or other option which you are holding, they may find they have to go to their WL and go fairly far down it to find someone who by then, who hasn't paid a deposit elsewhere or emotionally committed to somewhere else. At least they will then have your deposit and the existence of the deposit will mean that those who do as you are, will be reduced in number, because many won't want to lose the deposit.

I understand about you wanting to see your state offer. It's not unreasonable. However, regarding the independent offers, I really don't think people need weeks to make a choice. It is up to people to look round throughly before exams and make their decisions so they can move quickly. Holding multiple independent offers means other families can't get given a WL place, in this crucial period before deposits are paid. They start looking for and accepting alternatives - if people released their other independent offers faster, more would get what were their real higher choices. That's why City encourage people to release them quickly - it's simply acknowledging the inter-woven nature of the application, offers and acceptance system. When people hold onto multiple offers for long periods it really does create problems.

So imagine that you get the state school offer too - you might still be undecided. You could accept the state school offer and having paid the deposit at City, still hold that offer too. Some people do this and hold both offers until July or even September - they feel especially entitled to do this when they have paid a deposit. And what is the effect? If they eventually go to the independent school, a child who could have had a state place by then has bought uniform and been to the welcome days of another school and perhaps will decide it's too much trouble to change over - they end up with the less good option. And state school option is chosen, the independent is left perhaps with a term of fees, but possibly an empty place for several years, or certainly taking a far less qualified candidate because that's who is available at that point.

I understand waiting for state school offers, but I think all other places can and should be released as soon as possible.

When I heard about this last year, I thought it was awful, but on reflection, I can see why they do it.

Firstly, it is clear that this is the approach. No-one is left in the dark unless they don't read the paperwork.

Why do they do it? It's because they are on a tight space city site and need to fill to capacity but cannot overfill. Due to location, very large numbers apply and for many, it is not a serious option but very much a back up in case people don't get a state grammar offer, or an alternative independent. When the school makes offers to these vast numbers, they have no way of knowing who will take up the offer and who won't - there is more uncertainty for them than for many schools. So what can they do? They can offer to the exact number and then use a wait list after state school options day. The problem is that WL don't deliver very good solutions for schools if they have to recruit a sizeable number from them. Firstly, after national offers day, large numbers on the WL have decided on either another independent and paid their deposit or have selected a state school. The school finds they have to go down and down the wait list to people they would prefer not to take, in all honesty. Some of the people who say 'no' on the WL at this point, would have said 'yes' if getting an offer in the over-offering of exploding offers, because it was their choice, but later they are swayed by an alternative offer.

By using the exploding offers, the school can over offer without fear of having too many accept which they simply cannot accommodate. They know that those who really really want the place and for whom it is absolutely their first choice, will say 'yes'. If they can fill with them, they are happy. Anyone who was never serious about it, simply won't accept and pay. And those who really want the state school place and think they have a good chance won't accept either - and the school are fine with that, because the vast majority of them were never going to come anyway. The fact the school will lose a few of those who they wanted and then didn't get the state school places they hoped for, is a cost the school is willing to bear, becaue of the benefits overall they gain. And they judge it is their duty to the school and the current and future pupils to deliver that, more than to allow people to hold multiple offers or spend ages deciding.

So now City is full. Other schools have no idea whether they have over offered or will fill up....they won't know that until after national offers day. Many of them will then find they have to put on expensive bulge classes if more accept than they hoped for (City has avoided the need to do that) and others will have to go to their WL, or even to people who weren't even interviewed in order to fill up, taking those of lesser ability (CIty won't have to do that)

I agree that for people waiting for State school offers its very hard.....but the info was always out there. It's no surprise. For those with other independent offers, to be honest, I have no sympathy if they missed out - City is challenging the accepted culture of people sitting on multiple offers for weeks and delaying making decisions, which actually then affect other families too, because wait lists cannot move. It isn't unreasonable to expect people to have basically made a decision before the results come in. It isn't unreasonable to expect them to commit to it quickly. They can then release their other offers and those schools will perhaps offer places to WL people - they will be indirectly benefitted by Citys speedy policy.

In the end, having a lomg acceptance period creates uncertainty for schools and often for families who are hoping for a WL place and don't have any offers. Having a long acceptance and sitting on multiple offers was the culture, but perhaps it's going to become something of the past, because it creates huge problems. There is no obligation to indulge this previous practice of people having ages to decide. Parents feel outraged, but Citybis full of people who they were prepared to offer to. It is done and dusted. The parents who have accepted know that their cohort will be full of other families who had absolutely chosen City and who the school had chosen too.

I got that email too - although we had accepted. And then an email retracting that first email with apologies. And then the same email again asking us please to withdraw from any other pending places to make the applications process easier. TBF it's not my job to make the school offers process easier - it's their job. I am holding on to a couple of offers because this is a huge decision for us and because DD may decide to go to state school if she gets in. These are huge decisions for ordinary families - with huge financial implications. Their attitude is pretty awful.

Well, for another example of how CLGS is just not cutting it this admissions season, we have received an e-mail this morning saying how delighted they are we have accepted a spot at CLGS for our daughter in Sept snd could we please withdraw our offers at other schools....but our email yesterday said our offer was withdrawn! Quite the error to make on their part... of course my emails and phone calls to clear this up have all gone unanswered.

What an emotional rollercoaster to put families on! Thank goodness I have shielded my DD from all of this. As a results she is still in love with the school,

But yes, the 24 hour CLSG time bomb is quite ludicrous...

I agree Foxpants
As soon as we had our offers (previous years) i accepted straight away.
You should really know which one you want.. you've been thinking about this for a long time, surely?

Also if you want to hold a private school place as "insurance" then pay the deposit. Actually paying the deposit is quite a moment of realisation ime.

Many of these schools that do this cannot physically put on an extra class. It's not always possible to get the numbers exactly right.

Had no idea about exploding offer system...totally new to the system....We are sitting on many offers right now as want to discuss with our DS who has received these offers and he is on a school trip for this entire week !!!

Kingston Grammar/Highgate/UCS are amongst our offers !!

We can't decide without him, he is happily skiing with rest of 40 students in his school...!has no idea about his offers !

£1500 is a vast amount of money. Most people cannot afford to throw that away even if they have decided they can swallow the annual fees. It will put off people who are not superwealthy. It will also put off working parents. We got our offer at 1pm on Friday. The office was open from 9am on Monday which happens to be most people's working hours. How on earth do you get there within one and a bit working days (which is what the expiry period turned out to be) if you work, have caring responsibilities, are away over half term?

They also ask for two parental signatures which could also take more than 24 hours to put together if the parents are separated.

And that's before you consider how unkind it is to girls who had no idea this offer could be snatched away from them. As I mentioned, if I hadn't read MN I would have had no idea that the offers would expire within effectively 9 business hours. The documentation says the offers expire but one would have no idea that was the time frame. Luckily I chose to go on Monday (had been thinking of Tuesday as I have been so ill with the flu but thank god I didn't...) and I texted a friend to tell her to get there too so she also changed her plans and got there just in time.

This is no way to run a railway. It looks arrogant and it's plainly unnecessary as most schools manage without doing this.

I think it's a really unpleasant practice. Only a handful of schools do this, others manage their numbers differently (more attention to offer/WL offer balance) and although that is more intensive on staff time, it is better for families and reflects the school's view on what the school/family relationship should be like. Honouring an offer is a question of integrity, after all. Hedging offers with conditions means it shouldn't be a surprise when it happens, but at heart it is still a case that they will make offers they are not prepared to honour.

It would put me off a school, tbh. But others will be happy with it.

Hmmm - going to be controversial here and say that I don't think it's that bad a practice (yes, I'm a CLSG parent). Highgate did at 7+ this year and made it completely clear on its literature, City too has always been completely transparent about its policy. This can be an absolutely torrid time for people who are on waitlists or who don't have slots for their children. Parents have loads of time to make their mind up on the right school ahead of results day and don't usually need to sit on lots of offers.

Also, if someone is about to save £150k for a state school place, I think they can part with £1.5k as insurance for a private school place.

Just can't see why it's such a controversial practice....

Lentils thank you for the kind and supportive words. We read the literature and were aware but were still caught off guard st no notice being given by the school that it was happening so quickly. It will be okay and we can stay on the wait list but do think it’s best to accept another offer and move on. Still stings to have something your child has earned be taken away from her so abruptly. Don’t have the heart to tell her!

@LondonUSAmum - it's their loss. It looks like your DD has other amazing offers anyway. I was reading on another forum someone tsking / tutting about how parents hadn't read the literature about offers. People like that miss the point! Exploding offers terrible when they happen in the job market - and apparently don't lead to great employees anyway. In the 11+ setting it's adding insult to injury. Families wouldn't be applying to so many schools if independents were more transparent - but hey that takes away their mystique and aura. Why a school can't manage a wait list based on historical data without resorting to additional stressful measures is beyond me! And the fact that they are doing it for their convenience rather than mitigating the stress of the families speaks VOLUMES.

It’s so deplorable. We are out of the country visiting a sick relative and while we knew we would have to act fast only because of this forum and our Head we could not act this quickly even if we wanted to. Just because they can do it this way doesn’t mean they should.

It's a reprehensible practice. Moreover, if they are going to do this, then I want them to be explicit about it. Not jut shove it into the offer letter text. They should be making it very clear at Open Day and again with the exam literature.

Lastly, they could easily have had a realtime counter on their website that showed how many offers had been currently received. At least then it would have been a more transparent process.

It hurts the less well off who are waiting to see if they have a decent state option on 1st March and can ill afford a wasted deposit. Pretty despicable. YES!

Highgate apparently also does this although I have no offer letter to lok at to confirm that-

Let me also mention that King Alfred (in Golder's Green) demand a full term's deposit (£6,241) as early as 5 January!

Despicable by all these schools to design a process that puts families that consider schools in both sectors under such pressure.

Yeah, Channing was the one I was referring to...

City do this, also Channing. I know children caught out last year.

It hurts the less well off who are waiting to see if they have a decent state option on 1st March and can ill afford a wasted deposit. Pretty despicable.

Personally I think it's indecent to make people pay a deposit before state schools offers day.

Bullied is the right word for exploding offers. We decided against CLSG because of the commute and had a twinge of regret around exam time, but glad we didn't apply now. It seems that some schools are moving toward a less pressurised entrance procedure and some ratcheting it up! @AveEldon - not complaining about whether they make it known in their literature or not, complaining that exploding offers for an 11+ entrance is just plain ridiculous. I would not be surprised if they are banking of a few families saying YES, paying the deposit as insurance, while they mull over other choices.

It's pretty awful. I knew this was possible but only from reading MN last year. Children are at state school so no particular network knowledge. That the offer expires is mentioned in the email but obviously you have no idea that that actually means you have literally one working day to get your info in. Friends of ours are on holiday this week were completely unable to do this and have just had the email letting them know it's expired. I'm just lucky that I have a flexible job that allows me to disappear in the middle of the day to deliver everything they require.

Thanks Ave, just had a panic!

City made it very clear in the admissions booklet and other paperwork

As far as I know W, T, A & DC will all honour offers until the deadline date